Melky's trade value = damaged goods middle reliever??? Wow, where are all the guys that said he was a rising star that would be starting in the OF for the 2007 Yanks?
Well, like I said, Melky was going to be the 5th OFer. That's a surefire way to destroy his value, and the atrophy of his skillset from not playing often enough would make him worthless to us. 10P10 has outlined some other guys in the system who project better than Melky anyway. If we have a need for an outfielder due to injury, we can make it with the farm talent right now. We desperately need bullpen help. Look at the ages of our starting rotation. I posted the average age about a week ago, and it was somewhere in the mid-30's, with Wang strongly driving down the average. How many innings can those aged arms throw before they just can't go anymore? We need guys ready to pitch in the 6, 7, and 8th innings, until we can get to Mo. Sometimes you have to gauge the value of a trade by the impact of the player on your situation, rather than the raw talent of the players involved.
So.... maybe Melky was not nearly as good as people were making him out to be 6 months ago? I mean you once said he had the best arm at Yankee Stadium since Winfield and that he was one of the top prospects in all of baseball. There were comparisons to Bernie, Paul Oniel, Abreu, and Soriano... now he's getting traded for a relief pitcher and people are happy with it?!?!?! Seems really inconsistent to me.
Perhaps the same inconsistencies that Met fans proclaimed when Kazmir got traded for Zambrano 4 years back? I know you're just making conversation..but I'm not sure what you're getting at. Gonzalez is a damn good relief pitcher...and we got him for Melky...which leads me to believe that Melky is pretty highly regarded league wide.
Did I say he had the best arm since Winfield? Hmmm, maybe I did, but he would have competition with O'Neil, Sheffield, and now Abreu. His arm is definitely up there though. I would NEVER compare him to Bernie, that would be an insult to Cabrera, defensively at least. How he could be compared to Soriano is beyond me. The others though, yeah, I would rank him with them. Like I said, it isn't about the talent vs talent in the trade. It's need vs. supply. The fact is, whether guys like 10P10 and I like it or not, Bernie is the 4th OFer. The fact is Matsui, Damon, and Abreu are the starting OF for us. So that leaves it as a fact that Melky is stuck in the 5th spot if he stays. He would play maybe once a week, if even, unless a starter went down for an extended period. That would lead to his bat going cold when he was in the lineup, and would result in a significant devaluation of his talent. No, I don't believe we got fair value in this trade. However, we needed another arm in the pen, and we were better off trading Melky at the top of his value. Could we have done better? Probably not, otherwise I am pretty confident Cashman would have done so. To get a better value for value trade, it would probably have come at the cost of Melky and a farm prospect. Cashman seems steadfast in his resolve to not repeat the mistakes of the past half-decade.
Huh? What does Kazmir/Zambrano have to do with this? My comments are specific to this board. Melkymania went wild on this board and now everybody is rationalizing this possible trade... it goes against everything that was said this summer about keeping the kids on the team and Melky being ready to start in the NYY OF. He was called a star and the top prospect in baseball... compared to Hall of Famers and Yankee greats by some here.
My point is that the same thing went on 4 years ago w/ Kazmir. Many on here were proclaiming that he was the next great lefty in this league and how badly they wanted him called up to Queens. Then he got traded for an average # 3 starter and many were rationalizing it as a great "win now" move. Anyone who thought of Melky as the best prospect in baseball were absolutely kidding themselves. He will certainly be a decent player long term who'll hit for average and provide good defense in the field..but he's nothing to go crazy over.He earned his pinstripes while in the Bronx..and He had value for us long term...but by no means was he an untouchable asset for the franchise. I'm thrilled to get a player like Gonzalez for him, as I believe he will be a very good set up man.
So Melky is at the top of his value at 22? And yet he can't displace 38 year old noodle armed Berni Williams despite being a better player (as you claim)?
I'd love to see you pull out some of those quotes because that is a ridiculous position to take on that trade. The overwhelming majority of Mets fans hated that deal right away. I don't want to call anybody out but that was definitley said. :wink: :wink: That's a more reaonable position. I said he'd be lucky to have a career like Reggie Sanders and I still believe that's fair to say.
I can't tell whether you're being purposely difficult, or you are just misunderstanding. Melky is a very good ballplayer, with lots of potential. However, due to contract numbers, he wasn't going to supplant Matsui, or Damon (who he FAR surpasses defensively.) Bernie is automatically the #4 outfielder, simply because that's what Joe does. That leaves Cabrera as the #5, no questions asked. As a #5, barring any serious injury, such as the Matsui situation, he would play once per week, tops. His bat is above average, but he isn't good enough offensively to play once a week and shine at the plate. That would lead to a total devaluation of his talent by the end of next season. So instead of getting a possible quality trade with him, we get zilch. This is NOT the best trade we could have made involving Melky. However, in order to do better, teams were probably demanding him and another prospect. How much can you give up before you blow out the farm again. The Tampa coalition has been doing that for years now. Cashman does not agree with that line of thinking, and any intelligent Yankee fan agrees with Cashman. You take what you can get, when you can get it. Trading a player who would have had somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 at-bats for a player who will pitch once every two or three days is getting good value.
Why doesn't Joe put the best player available in the #4 spot? If Melky was as good as you say he is why isn't that spot his? Bernie has a lock on that spot "no questions asked"? This one is straight out of the 10Pen10 playbook. :rofl: :rofl:
Simply because that's Joe. You don't see me and 10P10 calling for his head every day for nothing. The fact is, when the Yankees were more under Cashman's umbrella they won. Then the Tampa Boys started sticking their hands in the cookie jar, and we wound up with roaches. Cashman is arguably the best GM in SPORTS. And yes, that includes Minaya, who I value at #2. But we will just have to wait until Halloween 2007 to know for sure.
As I've said all along, Melky's potential is decent starting OFer/good 4th OFer. I was a fan of keeping him for this year before the Abreu trade because of the hole in RF which he could fill as a starter for a year. Now that we have Matsui, Damon, Abreu filling the OF spots, with better prospects waiting when they are gone, trading a 4th OFer like Melky for a dominant lefty set-up man is a good trade. Like I said, I changed my opinion of Melky as a Yankee for the long term after the Abreu trade. FTC, you're acting like changing this opinion is a bad thing. Only an idiot doesn't change his opinion on something when evidence, or things of the like, aren't presented that makes them feel differently than their current opinion. As far as the blind support for Cashman goes, I'm guessing FTC was just joking around, since I've disagreed with a number of things Cashman has done. I've just liked more of the things he's done than I've dlsliked, especially with the farm system.
We all know my opinion of Melky was always higher than yours, but there's nothing to say you are wrong with your opinion either. I liked him more than Matsui in left simply for his glove. If I had to make a decision based solely on offensive output, any day of the week I take Hideki. Melky became significantly more expendable IMO after you talked about the minor leage prospects we have waiting in the wings. If we have better talent getting prepared in our system, then there is no reason not to make this trade now. As for Cashman, again, I have a higher opinion of him than you. Sure, I admit I have blinders on when it comes to him, but in my view, he can do no wrong. I have had blind faith in Tanny, and that has worked out so far. I see no reason to give the same credit to a guy who is, IMO, a better GM than anyone in any sport. I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, but I think Cashman, when given total control, is ultra powerful, and he knows how to use his "muscle" to make things happen for the improvement of the ballclub. So far this offseason, I give the Yankees a B+ overall. Failing to get Matsuzaka takes away the A. (I know, it would have been ridiculous to offer $50+M to him, so it really isn't a fair grade.) Cashman gets the A though. He has yet to make a questionable deal. Every move he's made so far has improved the team and that's more important than keeping guys out of a simple sense of loyalty, or liking them from a fan POV. Plus, not being obsessed with grabbing the best "talent" in the pitching market shows that his commitment to long-term needs surpasses the desire to just win this next year.
You can take it with a grain of salt, but here is a Met fan's opinion on Melky. He's not going to be a star like a Cano turned out to be, but I think he is a pretty good player. It's really hard not to like a guy with the plate discipline (56 walks and only 59 k's in 460 ab) that Melky has at the age of 22. He's a damn good left fielder, with a right field arm, though I do wonder if he'll be an asset defensively in center field. This is a problem with Melky's lack of power. I know power is usually the last tool to develop, but I have a hard time seeing him being more than a 15 homer player. I think he could very well have a career similiar to Randy Winn's, though Melky has better plate discipline. He is a pretty valuable player, especially if you think he can be an asset in CF. With Damon signed for three more years and Abreu/Matsui in the corners, Melky is more valuable to another team than he is for the Yanks. I think Melky for Mike Gonzalez (if he's healthy) is a very good trade for New York.
Just saw this.. The Newark Star-Ledger is reporting that the Yankees and Diamondbacks are talking about a Randy Johnson deal. A baseball official from a third team is the Star-Ledger's source. The official said the Yankees do not want to pay any of Johnson's $16 million salary as part of a deal, which would be a big hurdle if true. Even in this market, Johnson is a poor risk at $16 million for 2007 and the Diamondbacks weren't interested in spending that kind of money on a free agent. We're skeptical anything will happen. Dec. 25 - 11:58 am et Wow!
The Full article BY ED PRICE Star-Ledger Staff The Yankees are in discussions with the Arizona Diamondbacks about sending Randy Johnson back to the team for which he starred in 1999-2004, according to a baseball official. The official, who works for a third team but has spoken to people involved in negotiations, asked not to be identified because of the confidential nature of his discussions. Advertisement "They're talking," the official said. Yankees general manager Brian Cashman did not return a call seeking comment. "I wouldn't know anything about it," Diamondbacks general partner Ken Kendrick said. "If in fact that's the case," said Alan Nero, one of Johnson's agents, "we're not aware of it." Johnson, who won four Cy Young Awards in Arizona, has a full no-trade clause, which he waived to come to the Yankees in January 2005. But he still makes his primary home in the Phoenix area and has never seemed fully comfortable in the glare of New York. In two seasons with the Yankees, Johnson has gone 34-19 but with a 4.37 ERA; he was 17-11 with a 5.00 ERA this year. He has one year left on his contract ($16 million, $1.5 million of which is deferred without interest) and has 280 career victories. The 43-year-old Johnson underwent surgery soon after last season to repair a herniated disk in his lower back, and the Yankees have said they are not counting on him to be ready for the opening of the regular season. But the Diamondbacks, all but out of the competition to sign free-agent left-hander Mark Mulder, are in need of another starter -- and some goodwill after a messy divorce with popular left fielder Luis Gonzalez. While the baseball official said Johnson had made overtures to the Yankees about a return to the Diamondbacks, a person close to Johnson -- who asked not to be identified because he could not confirm the trade talks -- said Johnson did not request a trade. The baseball official said the Yankees do not want to pay any of Johnson's salary as part of a deal. The Diamondbacks are considered to have one of the deeper farm systems, so the Yankees could continue their trend that started when they moved Gary Sheffield and Jaret Wright for players to restock their system. Ed Price may be reached at eprice@starledger.com.
