Frankly, I don't think that Manning or Brady, at 30+, are worth two firsts. Maybe Rodgers. No player is worth 2 firsts in the seventh week of the season, especially a QB like Palmer who hasn't been good since about 2007, because it will take him easily about a month to learn the offense. QBs need to be in TC to get comfortable with the offense. Ask Indy about that. They should have gone with Painter from Day 1 when they knew Peyton wasn't going to be ready to play. Collins was just awful. I suspect that Palmer won't be much better.
Thought of another one, Ben Rothlisberger. Pittsburgh was reaching and losing the AFC Championship Game before he got there with various QBs, they were always good and always in the hunt. His first couple of years there they had success and did win a Super Bowl, but the Steelers carried Ben through that process more than he led them. He grew into the job and it kind of transitioned into him leading the team. I think that's the best comparison we can make right now, hopefully Sanchez follows that same pattern--speaking of only on the field, of course.
I agree. We did the same thing way back when Vinny got hurt in 1999. Ray Lucas had been here and had been with Parcells, but they went with the veteran Rick Mirer and it blew up the season early. They eventually went to Lucas but it was too late. Teams like to go with the veteran guys for whatever reason and assume they'll figure it out fast. We did it with Favre, too.
Maybe Carroll would like to do that, but I seriously doubt that he calls the final personnel shots with the Seahags. Moreover, if he can get Tavaris Jackson to look like a somewhat competent NFL QB, Carroll doesn't need to give up 2 firsts for a mediocre QB. He can find a bunch of those for nothing.
I've been a little frustrated with Sanchez this year also but this seems over the top to me. You have to remember: 1. Two of his WRs that he had the best chemistry with were let go and replaced with slow, aging vets (he already looks better throwing to Kerley). 2. The OL had a terrible start to the season and for a while was getting Sanchez crushed. 3. They've inexplicably gone away from the power running game in favor of a much more pass-oriented attack - not a good idea when the OL is letting guys have a free run at Mark. 4. His TD/INT ratio continues to improve. I think people are really jumping the gun on questioning whether he should be our QB or not.
Did USC win a national title with Sanchez? I'm thinking they did. I realize the whole college title is really fictional, but you still have a bowl game with the "championship" riding on it, which has to count as a big pressure game.
I think that the difference between Roethlisberger and Sanchez is that Roethlisberger showed that he was in command of the game from early on in his second season. Pitt went 15-1 in 2004, they won the Super Bowl in 2005, missed the playoffs in 2006 when Roethlisberger was first injured and then had appendicitis, but came back and won it all again after the 2007 season. Roethlisberger's leadership and play lifted those excellent teams. They played better with him in the game, and they failed when he was out for significant stretches, despite Charlie Batch playing well. Sanchez's play has not lifted the Jets to anything like Roethlisberger's play lifted the Steelers -- nor the way Vick's play lifted the Eagles last season. Sanchez's play has been much more at the "meh" level that we saw with Kolb in Philly last season rather than at the "yeah" level of Vick. Keep in mind that Kolb put up some pretty decent stats last year, too.
This has absolutely nothing to do with how a QB -- or any other player -- will perform as a pro. Didn't Matt Leinart also win a national championship? The problem with college ball is that there usually is a large disparity in talent. The teams that end up in the big bowls are teams that have significantly more talent than the teams that they fatten up on. It's easy for a player to look great when he's surrounded by premier players going up against guys who wouldn't even make his school's team. A lot of big time college teams don't face more than 1 or 2 decent teams until they get into the bowls. It's easy for a kid to look like a "leader" when everything is going right. When these college kids get to the pros, everything changes. Everybody is a premier player, and every game is a dogfight. Some of these kids are just the products of their schools being powerhouses. Others can't handle the work and/or the competition. That's why so many top college players, especially QBs, tend to fail in the pros.
nope beat Penn State in the Rose Bowl, though with Sanchez heating up in the second half and making it a runaway
Nope. Put Sanchez in a real offense and he explodes. Sanchez was the first QB to pass for over 300 yard in schittys system and he's done it multiple times now. Nacho is a franchise QB, will be top 5 once we have a OC with a brain. Lock it up.
Thanks. I really don't follow college ball that closely, I mostly watch it as a warm-up for Sunday's NFL. And Rutgers, of course.
Those first couple of years, including the 15-1 when they were lucky to get past us in the playoffs, and the following year when they beat Seattle in the Super Bowl, the team carried Ben more than he carried them. After that he grew into more of a team leader, but he didn't step into the NFL as a cool, consistent QB. That's the point about Sanchez, a lot of times the team carried him, but when they needed a big play from him they got it, very similar.
No, the running game and defense protected Ben more than the Jets ever did with Sanchez. Ben barely threw the ball over 28 times a game in his first 3 seasons. He was coddled for a reason. He didn't lift the teams, he was a cog in the wheel of an excellent team. In his 5th season on, he became the passer he is today.
Eagles won the NFCE last season. Kolb was on the Eagles last season not this season, and he even started out as their starter. Got hurt early, then got the starter's job back again and finally lost it for good to Vick because Vick outplayed him. Like the Jets this season, the Eagles aren't playing nearly as well as they did last season. Maybe both teams need fewer divas and more team players. In the era of free agency, what a team did the previous year or years doesn't necessarily point to what they'll do this season. That seems to be even more true this season than most.
who are the recent "two firsts" for a player trades? Let me say this. It's pretty inaccurate to say Carson Palmer got traded for 2 1st round picks. The 2013 is conditional and i've heard either the raiders have to win a playoff game OR the AFCCG this year or next. i'm not sure which it is, but that's far from a guaranteed scenario and bordering on unlikely. It's a 1st and a 2nd...which will probably be in the 50+ range picks if oakland keeps playing like this. Jay cutler, but jay cutler was actually a lot more on the upswing when he got traded. He was still very young in his career and people thought he was just going to keep getting better and better especially in a better situation. imho though, it's not really all his fault. who the fuck does he have in Chicago to throw to? When he had Brandon Marshall, marshall was a top 3 WR.
top 5...no way, i love sanchez and i'm not down on him, but top 5 is ridiculous. He'll never be on the level of Brady Brees Rodgers Manning... the next tier is guys like : -Rivers, who's had an off year but overall he's been top 5 -Cam Newton could easily climb this ladder with the way he's playing -Big Ben, although i can see sanchez get to about that level eventually - Bradford/Stafford....If bradford can get some receivers and protection, he'd be one of the best in the league. Stafford isn't there yet, but he's getting there Even if Manning couldn't play again, i still don't see him cracking the top 5. especially with Andrew luck coming out soon I could see sanchez at his peak, a top 7 QB. def top 10 *edit* i forgot vick. Philly's been shitty but Vick is still probably the #5 guy. guy hasn't had any protection either
It's still too much for a 32-year-old QB who hasn't been all that good for a few years and who hasn't played a down for anybody since last season. Palmer is NOT worth a first, much less another pick in the first three rounds.
i'm not saying it isn't. i'm just saying, it's a bit dramatic and misleading to say it's 2 1st rounders. i've heard that exact phrase used constantly the last few days. i thought at BEST, palmer was going to get be traded for a 2nd rounder. MAYBE a late 1st for a desperate team.
By the time Sanchez reaches his peak Brady, Brees, and Manning will be out of the league, or really old.
