I really do not think that Jets have valued Abe as worth the #31 overall. It is just currently the best offer on the table that passes their 'minimum compensation' requirement. You may think it is a semantic difference, but I think it is important. Here is a hypothetical: The Jets would be wiling to accept any pick in the top 35 for Abraham straight up. Let's say they get an offer for #31 overall, do they stop looking for more offers? Jets need to take the best offer on the table. #31 is on the table. Jets CANNOT accept less than that.
They didn't "settle" for the #31 pick. The #31 pick, they felt, was better than the supposed 2nd round + player. #15 is better than the #31, which would be another outbid. Unless the Falcons can somehow offer something better than the #31 without the using #15, they will have to include it.
Flippydaze, you are absolutely SPOT ON with this post. Nice post! Thanks 117. Guys, I think people are still misundestanding a few things. I never said Abe would, or even should, be benched for sitting out camp this year, if he returns under tender. The Jets would never do it anyway, as it would set a terrible, ripple-effect-type, precident around the league. What I was referring to was if he decides to be a cancer about it. If he sits in the locker room "talking smack" about other players and/or coaches etc. Half-hearted play could also be construed as detremental to the team, and could warrant a suspension. Again, however, I would not condone suspending, or even benching him, simply to make a point. As far as his value, if you read hydro's post from this morning, titled "Jets News 3/21," you will see there is a specific highlight over an item particularly relevant to this conversation. According to the article, the Jets are saying within the organization that they will bring back Abe, rather than trade him for less than a first-round pick. Chances are, Seattle is off the table now. I doubt there will be a deal there, but you never know. Either Atlanta will give up their first this year, or next, or Abe will be wearing white numbers on a green shirt in September. I have a gut feeling Abe will return next year.
No way Atlanta is foolish enough to include thier #15 pick now. Seattle offered #31 and you guys accepted it. You will get no better than that. If Jets management had focused on the team that Abraham *wanted* to go to rather than trying to push him off on a team he doesn't want to go to then they wouldn't have the problem they are in now. McKay is a good GM, a smart one. He's been mentioned as a top 3 candidate to take over the NFL with Tagliabue leaving. Talk about him all you like, call him any name you want, but the guy is not stupid. Personally I would prefer using our pick on Tambi Hali and not worry about signing your disgruntled player. But he likes us, wants to play for us and our management wants him here. If it gets done, great. If not, that's your problem. We showed interest in a player you guys were offering and the bottom line is we made an offer, the Jets refused and they shopped thier product somewhere else. Can't blame them for trying but they forgot to talk to the player they were shopping who has the veto, same as Jets management. If I was franchised two seasons in a row, wasn't paid my value and was told I couldn't leave I'd be pissed off too.
The only reason the Jets have 'accepted' the #31 overall from SEA is because it is the best deal on the table. You don't think that ATL will up their offer the second Abraham has a meeting with the Seahawks? The Jets will only take the best deal on the table. Why would they accept less? To accomodate John Abraham? Ha! If you haven't read this, you should. "Privately, the Jets are saying they'd sooner keep Abraham, against his wishes, than trade him for less than a first-round pick. Lurking in the shadows are the Seahawks, who have offered their first-rounder (No. 31). The Jets will accept that proposal, but Abraham apparently doesn't want to play in Seattle." http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/story/401535p-340138c.html Also, Tamba Hali and Matthias Kiwanuka are both not top 20 picks anymore, so go ahead, reach. I'd still do Abe + 3rd rounder for #15 overall, or Schaub and a 2nd, or your 2nd rounder plus 1st rounder next year, or 2nd and 3rd this year plus a day 1 pick next year, etc. I'm not someone who feels we need to get the #15 overall straight up for it to be a good deal. It just has the be the best deal on the table.
How does Abe have a veto? If the Jets say Seattle or you stay here, that are his choices. If he doesn't want to play here then go to Seattle. Otherwise player here and shut up, or ride the bench. Actually that is revisionist history. ATL came to the Jets and wanted a trade. The Jets said we want Schaub or the 1st, ATL said no and low balled with a 2nd rounder. So the Jets said screw you. Seattle THEN came in an offered a package including the 31st. The Jets agreed to nothing, Seattle just offered it. So ATL tried to circumvent the Jets and agreed to a deal with Abe before agreeing to trade compensation, in an attempt to force the Jets hand. Problem with that was by offering such a large contract ATL was admitting he is a 1st round talent. So the Jets want the value ATL placed on Abe with that large contract and a better offer than Seattle. ATL tipped their hand and it is bad negotiating. They could have had a verbal agreement ABE until everything else was settled. Oh yes the way Abe was treated is horrible. 14 million in 2 franchise years is crap, I know. The bastards!!! It isn't just about the money with Abe. Do you have any idea of the time and money the team invested in him? With all the off the field issues and personnal problems? The Jets dealt with a lot of garbage from Abe, and now they want something in return for all their troubles. And this FO is trying to make a point. If you think they are going to accept a lowball offer from McKay, especially since they know what value ATL places on Abe, then I want what you are smoking.
Look, this is all crap by the Atlanta F.O. They have Abraham, saying, I want to go play there, and I like what they're offering. He is clearly worth more than the 15th Overall selection. That isnt even debatable. So, either cough up the pick, and get a trade done, or Sign him and give up the Franchise compensation, or STFU, and get out of the picture.
As a fellow Falcon fan I understand the view of not trying to give up our 15th pick for JAbe, but you must realize that this guy is their best player. I understand that right now he's only worth what the Jets can get for him (31st pick). I believe we should take the chance and give them our first pick. Put yourself in the Jets' shoes for a moment. Let's say that the same was happening with our top player that has proven himself on the field and is one of the top 5 in the league and would hurt us by losing him, wouldn't you think that a first round choice would be the way to go? Sure, good talent is available in the second sometimes and the first round does give its' share of crapshoots and such. We lucked out big time on DeHall by selecting a first rounder who could start in his first year. We also selected a WR (Jenkins) who couldn't even beat out Pearless Price his first year with the team. Not that he doesn't have the potential to be a huge impact in a year or two, he hasn't made a big impact in the two seasons he's played there. We also must realize that this year's draft is very deep in the first two rounds. What can be had in this year's second round is probably superior to many of those acquired in the first rounds last year and possibly even next year. This does make it that much harder to give up that 15th spot for a top notch player THIS year because of the quality that is there. Now I realize that the Falcons' FO have made a good offer to JAbe, but in this case, they must make TWO good offers to complete this deal. The one that counts the most is the offer to the Jets. Sure, JAbe can object all he wants about where to go, sit out if he's not happy and all of that. He does have the veto power in this situation. But he's a PLAYER, time is NOT on his side to make the big money he desires. The Jets will be around a lot longer than JAbe will and it is ultimately up to the Jets' FO to handle his situation as they please, even if it is to shop him and determine what real value that they can get for him, it is only fair to their organization and their fans that they get the most that they can for him as it is them that is losing someone that is so talented and definitely a huge anchor for their defense. In the Falcons' defense, JAbe would be a contributor from day one. Our defense will benefit hugely with him receiving double teams that would normally go to Kerney and/or Coleman. If JAbe didn't make the numbers he made last season with the Jets, I'm sure you'd see Kerney's and Coleman's numbers at an all time high. Now ask yourself, is that 15th pick NOT worth having a shut down defense of this potential? Potentially BETTER than the Bucs' defense in '02, and possibly nearly as good as the "D" the Ravens had in '00. If you don't think this is worth our 15th pick, then you obviously don't know the caliber of player JAbe is. I've seen him myself and if this guy had a year in college like he did last year, he'd be unavailable to us at the 15th pick. I know the Falcons FO is going to try to get him for less and I cannot blame them for trying, but I say "Git R Done" and give them that 15th pick and make everyone happy, especially ME! :beer:
FastEdBo has made the most clear concise and nonbias post by a Falcons fan yet CHEERS MY GOOD MAN :beer:
So what your saying is if you dislike the place you work and decide you want to leave, you've fulfilled your contract and want to move to place you feel you would be happier and your boss says, "Nah, things will get better you'll see..." and force you to stay you'd be satisfied? Then, once that year is done you say, "Ok, well I gave you guys a year and I'm still not happy so best of luck to you." and your boss says, "Wait a sec, we fired our management, we promise you'll be happier this year and by the way, you can't leave." that you would be ok with that? It's not always about the money. You nailed it on the head. Fourteen million dollars the past two years. You think the money is the only reason he wants out of New York? Put yourselves in his shoes awhile. "Hey John, we're talking to a team that isn't far from where you grew up. Maybe we can work out a deal to let you go there." Great, I'll go talk to them and see how it goes. "Hey good news guys. I really like it there and they seem to really want me." Hey John, that's great. Problem is they don't want to compensate us like we want. We realize you have lived up to your contract and would like to start your life over someone else. However, we have even better news! We found a place only 2000+ miles away that do want to pay us what we want and we would like you to go there. "Well, I already checked out that place you told me about and they offered me a great deal. I can start a new life, be close to my family and be around people I'm comfortable with." Yeah well, we own you so it's not your choice. You can either move 2000 miles away and start over there or stay here with us for another year knowing we don't really want you and we know you don't want to be here. Sounds good doesn't it? When all this started I didn't care much either way. But now that I see how it's been handled I feel sorry for the guy that can't get away. He signed a contract that he fulfilled and did a good job while living up to it. Now he's being treated like he's on eBay.
There is just one thing that you forgot in you analogy. Once you have fulfilled your contract your work is allowed to keep you with a higher salary than the previous year and there is nothing you can do about it! While Abe is a FA, he is not allowed to just leave thanks to the Jets placing the Franchise Tag on him. Abe has no one to blame but his fellow members of the NFLPA for this situation. The Jets have every right to do this based on the contract that the NFLPA has agreed to. Under this scenario, Abe has every right to negotiate with whatever team he wants too but until that team works out compensation with the Jets, then both the team and Abe are just wasting their own time.
Terrible example. John Abraham has a CHOSEN profession. Its a NFL player. As an NFL player, he has been fortunate to make millions and millions of dollars unavailable to the normal working stiff. But part of being an NFL player is to sign a contract that is governed by the Collective Bargaining Agreement..an agreement between labor and management that has grown his chosen profession beyound any other sport. As such, Abraham must abide by the terms of that CBA. So your example is a fallacy. Now if John wants to go home to momma in South Carolina and work in the local meat packing plant for $8.00 an hr..he can, America is a great country that way. He has his choice. But if he CHOOSES to stay an NFL player, he must abide by the agreed upon rules.
Well...Yes. It has been this way in sports for decades. Players are treated and traded like bargaining chips. You think Abe will be the first sports athlete traded to a place he didn't want to go? And the Jets have to look out for themselves. Yes Abe lived up to his end of the contract, but the Jets put up with alot of additional crap. Other teams would have cut his ass, look at Tampa with Keyshawn and TO in Phillie. If Abe was there, his ass would have been out the door. But the FO and CS stuck with him and worked with him. So now they want some return on their investment. If they settle for less than what he is worth, then the Jets will be seen as jokes. Agents and teams will continue to take advantage like KC with Herm, and Whitfield and Minny. People use the Jets as a spring board and people think they can be jobbed easily. The FO is trying to change that culture, which is obvious from the minute they got in. What about the Falcons? They see what the Jets invested in Abe. By the contract they offered Abe they obviously know what he is worth. They know he wants to be close to his family. So why are they low-balling the Jets? They want Abe, and Schaub, and their 1st, but don't want to give the Jets anything they want. They want the Jets to accept a low-ball offer for their best defensive player they invested so much time and money in. They want to get the most value they can while giving up as little as they have to. Which is exactly what the Jets are doing. It is called business. You want the Jets to be altruistic, what about the Falcons?
Atlanta better wake up, or else abraham will go to the vikes if trade is true, or the seahawks, doesnt atlanta know that the seahawks and vikings are in their division? If abraham goes to any of those 2 teams atlanta is in huge trouble, and will have less of a chance to win. Now with abraham atlanta has a huge advantage over any team that they play. What knuckleheads if they dont bite, abraham will bite their ass in games.
PSST.. The Seahawks, Vikings and Falcons are all in different divisions. They are in the same conference..big difference.
It's just a part of the business. I don't care so much for FO politics myself but the fact is that the Jets FO put a Franchise Tag on this player because of the impact player that he is. It would be no different if say, Coleman would be an UFA this year and we put a FT on him so that we'd get something for losing him. It's a smart thing to do and they (the Jets' FO) are going to get what they feel they deserve for losing him. If they keep him for next year because they don't make a deal, that's their problem to deal with and I'm sure they're capable and more than prepared to handle it otherwise they probably wouldn't have put that tag on him. If JAbe plays in a Jets' uniform next year, he only hurts himself if he causes problems and doesn't play up to his potential, thus reducing what he can sign for in a LTC next year. If the Falcons' FO doesn't make an acceptable offer to the Jets FO for the deal to be done, you might as well look at the Seahawks acquiring him in some form or fashion because it is the Jets' FO that have the most control of the deal, even if JAbe and the Falcons' get 'screwed' in the end. McKay is a very shrewd businessman but he's dealing with an organization that appears to be getting their crap together, just like the Falcons' FO has been doing the past couple of years. I'm sure McKay realizes the value of acquiring JAbe and is trying to work out another deal for a better selection that can be used in the acquisition that will suit the Jets' FO even if it doesn't really suit their fans. I just want this to get over with and soon or I'm going to choke to death foaming out the mouth thinking about this beast being on our "D".
