Quote: "...Jets fans are always going to spit and kick when 4-12 happens..." I have no quarrel with that. I just don't believe in scapegoating the quarterback when the reasons behind the losses are completely different, and start in a lot of other places first. Piling on the QB is worthless when he's been done in by a dysfunctional OL that strangles its own running game and sends the QB running for his life, forcing the defense back out on the field after one three-and-out after another.
This is a stupid question. The QB who should start the 2008 season should be the QB who performs the best in training camp amd preseason, because there is no sure-shot front-runner for the job. And people on his board call ME stupid?
The long ball has not been respected since 2002. We could have Randy Moss and the Defense still would not respect the long ball. opposing Cornerbacks think it is Christmas when they play us because they can jump routes at will! When we hit a long pass it is a blown coverage not a good pass!
I do agree with your post but there is a big difference betweeen Chad and Eli. I think Jay Cutler, Both Bill Qb's, Eli Manning, Jason Campbell, Phillip Rivers and a host of other Quarterbacks have the ability to be good to great nfl Qb's once they have a team surrounding them and they learn to play the game at the Nfl level. My problem with Chad is I do not ever see him being able to lead any team to a championship at the Nfl Level after his shoulder injury. He can not make the basic fundemental plays necessary to be an Nfl Qb. How can you get to a title if you can not run a 2 minute drill or throw a decent 10 yard out that will not get jumped by every backup Cb in the league. What team really has a shot when they know if they give up 14 points in the playoffs the game is over with Chad at the helm.
I definitely understand where you're coming from with this post but the key thing to keep in mind is that it "typically" takes 3 to 3.5 years for a QB to manifest. This is a guideline, not a rule. When it comes to Clemens, he already has some solid game experience, some very bad, some good. When you compare Clemens developmental game experience to Chad's "experienced" game experience last year, Clemens was already the better QB. While it is true you want to develop your QB of the future, keeping him on the bench will eventually have diminishing returns. The best QB has to play, and at least from what I saw last year I think that is Clemens. He would have a much better offense around him now and should be in a much better environment to succeed.
I guess when Chad couldn't beat out Vinny in his third year in 02 that meant Chad wasn't the answer. What was the question? The debate within the debate is not just Chad and Clemens but do we have a QB on the roster who is potentially good enough to take a quality team and put it consistently in the ranks of the elite teams and make a SB run? While apparently many people don't believe Chad is that guy based on observable facts over a carreer, many people have also made the assumption about Clemens based on very little observable facts. I'm in the camp that says Chad isn't that guy and never will be after 2 shoulder surgeries but I haven't seen enough of Clemens to determine one way or another. In order to find out Clemens should get all the reps in TC that he needs, not share reps with Chad who isn't the guy and certainly doesn't need the work. Clemens should also get the support and backing he needs from the staff and team to lead not be undermined by creating a faction on the team with loyalty to Chad. I'm further of the opinion that Chad is highly over paid either as a stop gap starter or back up and becuase he wants to start creates a situation which ultimately isn't good for Clemens. It's time to bank on Clemens or move on. This staff has passed on Quinn, Cutler and Leinart. Everyone says that we have had great drafts. Its time to find out what we actually have. Let Clemens get the work and start, give Ainge the reps he needs to see if he has a place anywhere on an NFL roster, bring in a veteran insurance policy who understands their role and can step up like Collins did last year for Washington in an emergency. Use the cap money saved to put another key blocker in place or bring in another weapon when a key player is cut this spring. And try and get some value back by trading Chad before we actually cut him. As keep ChadandClemens has consistently pointed out if we have the big uglies it really doesn't matter who starts. The idea of paying "it really doesn't matter" 7 Million is absolutely nuts in a salary capped league. Does Faneca's wife and kids really think he is a big uglie? Is Coles into Ballet or modern?
Right, I get it by now. It has nothing to do with Pennington, it's all the OL's fault. He's an All Pro QB just waiting for everyone around him to catch up.
Great point with the it really doesn't matter. I think people feel if we have a great line we can run all day but don't realize Sb caliber teams can take away your strength. When Chad has to throw and he will come Jan we will lose so it really does matter who is at Qb.
Quote: "...In order to find out Clemens should get all the reps in TC that he needs, not share reps with Chad who isn't the guy and certainly doesn't need the work. Clemens should also get the support and backing he needs from the staff and team to lead not be undermined by creating a faction on the team with loyalty to Chad...." No, I do believe you are wrong on this. Here's why: In a competition, each competitor gets the chance not only to see the impact / outcome of his own tactical playing choices but also that of every other competitor. In this way, each competitor broadens the teaching lession for every other competitor. Flying around in your own fishbowl trying to guess what's right and wrong is a lonely trial and error process. But flying with your friendly rivals there are other trials and errors besides your own to learn from. I think this is the strategy that the coaches realize packs more learning / growing opportunity into a finite time frame. I think the coaches are pretty smart on this myself.
Quote: "...Right, I get it by now. It has nothing to do with Pennington, it's all the OL's fault. He's an All Pro QB just waiting for everyone around him to catch up...." No, you don't get what I was saying. It has nothing to do with Pennington. What I was saying had everything to do with Kellen.
Yes, its smart to give QBs that aren't bonafide starters the chance to compete against each other- and that the problem we all have with the team right now. the most important position on the field is not settled- no team is successful like this, the Browns got lucky last year. But if we have a guy who is head and shoulders above the QBs in camp, are you still holding this competition?
As pointed out earlier this same thinking kept Chad on the bench until 2002 because Vinny had the loyalty of the locker room to the detriment of Chad actually being put in to start when he was ready. The difference is Chad came in to a situation better than Kellen did. If Chad would have come into this situation he would have never made it this far in the NFL.
The thing is, Clemens hasn't cemented the job yet. I don't think this QB competition is an indictment on Clemens but rather a coaching tactic to motivate him. Parcells used to do this with players all the time, where he would give them an edict, either perform, or get off the field. That is essentially what Mangini is doing with Clemens right now. If Clemens can't handle a QB competition with a guy that he has a clear advantage over, then he isn't the QB of the future, and the Jets are in some serious deep water. However, if he deals with it, wins the competition, and goes on to have a successful year, then we may have our guy.
Quote: "...I'm further of the opinion that Chad is highly over paid either as a stop gap starter or back up and becuase he wants to start creates a situation which ultimately isn't good for Clemens..." I think the contracts for these players are what the market dictated at the time they were negotiated. CS have the priority to win not balance the budget against the salary cap. That's the FO's job, and it gets done when the player's performance is clarified in the light of game day, not during the what if's of the off-season. It may be, for example, that Chad's moxie and hard physical work overwhelms the still-develop0ing Kellen in this competition and the NYJs are forced to go with Chad as the starter come September. This will reinforce his current compensation -- but that would happen in September, not early May. Also, for illustration, all Chad's moxie and strenuous rehabilitation may not be able to overcome Kellen's burgeoning growth and the NYJs will decide that Kellen nips Chad by a nose at the finish line. At which time, does the FO (a) release Chad so he can go be another starter somewhere else (assuming there is an immediate need in Sept.--unlikely but possible), and go looking on the FA market for a veteran backup QB who has years of experience in the BS offensive strategy, and knows the receivers like the back of his hand (or will before the end of next season he promises); or -- (b) immediately negotiate Chad's salary down to a market-based backup level before there's a play made (hoping against hope that Chad won't be called to come in right away because of a freak injury to Kellen when a Seymour breaks two of his ribs on the second play from scrimmage) so they are fiscally efficient in spite of humiliating Chad before his braying-for-blood fans and his incredulous teammates, or -- (c) Keep Chad mollified as a backup (they won't be able to enter the season unless the salary cap is not violated in any case) with the same compensation schedule, protecting Kellen's back, mentoriing Kellen, and giving the team enough breathing room to function well (if not perfectly) until a better opportunity surfaces. I think these are reasonable alternatives that the CS and the FO have the time and opportunity to study and decide on. It's not as if the CS and the FO believe there is a $7 million better alternative knocking on the door at this time anyway.
Quote: "...When Chad has to throw and he will come Jan we will lose so it really does matter who is at Qb...." But why do you assume that Shotty is going to be strategicallly monolithic? If the run works, if the OL is obliterating the line of scrimmage, BS will use the path to demoralize them when they aren't expecting it. Six yards and a cloud of dust (rubbery though it might be) is a great pattern to set up the pass. There is no taking away the strength when the run strengthens the pass and the pass strengthens the run in the BS offensive strategy (a BS mantra).
You can't ignore the basic tenant of muscle memory through repetition. Correct repletion under the same conditions over and over in controlled situations creates an automatic correct physical response over time. Limiting reps you limit the potential muscle memory associated with the timing of each throw each drop back, combining physical technique with the entire coordinated effort of the team. Chad doesn't need much of this at all, Clemens needs tons of it at the NFL level to see if he has the vision and ability to compete at the NFL level. The coaches took a 10 win team to 4 wins in one season. Some of the coaches have already been replaced and others will be replaced after this season. Mangini is a smart man but limited in experience. This may again be a learning experience for him? The fact is last year was among the worst years every by any coaching staff and we were rewarded for the mistakes of management with the 6th best pick in a 32 team league. As smart as they are they sure are capable of being dumb, making mistakes and hopefully learning. I find it amusing that you use muscle memory response as a tried and true posting technique but don't believe in the same method for an NFL QB being brought up to speed. You would think if you actually believed in learning as oppossed to muscle memory, there would be solid improvement in your own ability to read and react.
Quote: "...Does Faneca's wife and kids really think he is a big uglie? Is Coles into Ballet or modern?..." Now Winstonbiggs, I'm sure that Faneca knows fully well that "Big Ugly" is a term of endearment down in Texas where Keith Jackson first heard it uttered. I also believe that Coles knows something about football and therefore has a healthy respect for the Big Uglies doing their job right first so that he gets the chance to add some icing on the cake by doing his job. Coles knows full well why the QB (Kellen or Chad) had trouble getting the ball to him. He was there. And that's why he said what he said, as the man of a few words that he is.
Quote: "...Correct repletion under the same conditions over and over in controlled situations creates an automatic correct physical response over time...." But what are you repeating? Is it the correct recognition of the pattern and what to do about it? Is there another better way to internalize before you start repeating it? The Coaches will use every rep to teach, regardless of who executes the rep, that's apparently the strategy that they are following. Somebody else's mistake is a lot more enlightening because it's a lot easier to get over than when you make your own mistake in front of your peers. There are some real benefits to this approach, when you are learning. It's when you believe you have seen it all and just need "to do it better" that your mistakes teach others but not you.
That's what the coaches are for and why they have film sessions. The last thing Clemens needs to do is emulate any of Chads physical technique which isn't very good to begin with.
