so true, there were NO safeties over the top. we were running a pro set offense and gunning it down the field. and guys were open by 5 to 8 yards far more than you would see today. i really really enjoy seeing those jets unis, especially the green jerseys with the green helmets. they were so different than anything anyone else was wearing back in teh red, blue and black days of the nfl. those greens used to just jump off the screen at you. too much white these days in teh unis. lets go back to green helmets and get rid of the stripe on the shoulder
NYJUNC, After reading your last two posts it is clear that you are intentionally trying to skew the facts in favor of your argument or you just have no idea what you are talking about. As far as free agency goes, it did not happen in the 80s so guys like Ronnie Lott, Kevin Mawae, Jumbo Elliot, and other kick ass free agents that have helped our team in recent years were not available to help our QBs in the 80s. That was my point regarding free agency, it gave us a better chance to compete than we used to have back then. In our best year with O'Brien at QB we lost in double overtime to the Cleveland Browns. You can say what you want about him not winning in the playoffs but the ball bounces differently on just one play and we would have won that game to get a shot at the Broncos in the AFC Championship game (O'Brien's Jets already gave them their first loss of the year in week 8). In addition to the Gastineau roughing the passer call, we also had a pass interference penalty, and we let Kosar go 5-6 on a game winning overtime drive. Just because Sanzhez got us to 2 AFC Championship games does not make him a better QB, there were 21 other starters on each squad that had a hand in the outcome of those game (not to mention the coaches). Sticking with that same year, here is who got injured in 1985-1986: 1. Pro Bowl LB Lance Mehl was lost for the season with a knee injury 2. DE Mark Gastineau suffered a knee injury in the Colts win that cost him the rest of the regular season 3-4. NT Joe Klecko and OT Reggie McElroy RT both needed reconstructive surgery after knee injuries vs. Pittsburgh 5. Marty Lyons went out with a shoulder injury 6. Freeman McNeil missed four regular season games 7. Wesley Walker only played in eight out of sixteen regular season games 8. Johnny Hector missed three regular season games 9. By the end of the regular season the Jets had lost 2-3 of their starting OL Football players can age very quickly with the hits they take, the sack exchange was not it's old self when O'Brien peaked. While the class of the NFL was in the NFC, the 80s Jets had some serious competition in the AFC East. With five teams instead of four it was harder to win the Division. We had Shula and Marino to contend with. Eric Dickerson gave the Colts a boost for a while. The Patriots went all the way to the SB in 85 (one of our better years). The biggest difference overall is the quality of coaches that we have had before and after Parcells. After Parcells who was the worst head coach we have had? Herm, Mangenious, Rex? They were all pretty good coaches who kept things competitive. Compare them to Walton, Coslet, Kotite, Caroll, etc. and you can see why we did not win too many playoff games before Parcells.
we went literally 3 weeks without any of this. now all of a sudden its like we are back at square one again.
Twice however he played during the Mike Webster/Dwight Stephenson era. And those guys were hall of famers
You do know Ronnie Lott was barely a serviceable player when he came here, right? what does that have to do w/ the 80s anyway? But the ball didn't bounce differently and he had a million possessions to win that game. We won the week before w/ Pat Ryan and were winning when Ryan left the game in Cleveland. Injuries are part of the game, they affected us w/o a doubt but you don't think losing Kris Jenkins, leon Washington, Ellis, Braylon, etc... in 2009 hurt? losing kenkins, Leonhard, Woody, Cotch, Pace, etc... in 2010 hurt? The AFC STUNK in that era, ken's 3 playoff apps were against '85 NE, '86 Cle and '91 Hou. None of those teams were as good as '09 SD, '09 Ind, '10 Ind, '10 NE or '10 Pitt. MAYBE they were as good as '09 Cincy. you just keep making excuses, now it's the coaching. Which is it? did they not have talent? was it injuries? coaching? conference? The bottom line is w/ more talent in a weaker era Ken couldn't win a single playoff game. 2 times and more importantly was a 1st team all pro. which is an excellent point.
Once again you fail to understand my point. Our eighties teams were impaired by their inability to obtain free agents. Our Post Parcells QBs have padded their stats on the back of Pro Bowl caliber free agents. We lost a pro bowl linebacker, Joe Klecko, and Marty Lyons for the season. We lost Gastineau for five games. We went half of the season without Wesley Walker, lost both our first and second running backs for a few games each. To top that off we lost 3 of 5 starters on our offensive line. You want to compare Jim Leonard to Joe Klecko? Football is the ultimate team game. To win the game you usually have to win two out of three aspects of offense, defense, and special teams. The quarterback only controls one of those three things unless he is also your kicker. Even then he shares the offensive responsibilities with ten other men on the field at a time. While the starting quarterback is the leader and usually the most important player on the roster, a team wins or loses based on how good the team is, not on how good the starting quarterback is. Since Parcells got here we have enjoyed the fruits of his labor. He built a strong foundation and we have had better coaches, better draft picks, and quality free agents that have allowed us to put better teams on the field than we could have dreamed of in the seventies through most of the nineties. Sure we had some great players but they never seemed to all come together to make a big push at the end of the season as injuries or other problems got in the way. No one is saying that Ken O'Brien belongs in the hall of fame but when his star was at its peak he outplayed Dan Marino and John Elway that year. What that guy could do with today's pass oriented rules would be scary. ]
FA didn't exist and every team built their teams w/in the same rules. That is such a weak excuse. I won't compare Jim Leonhard to Joe Klecko but I will compare kris Jenkins to him. isn't it interesting we lose the last 5 games of 1986 in the reg season w/ O'Brien, we start Ryan in the WC game and win, we start Ryan in the div rd and have a lead then Ryan gets hurt and we lose blowing a 10 pt lead in the final minutes and losing in 2 OTs when Ken had a million chances to win that game. Parcells didn't build anything, he took a talented team and won w/ them, he left us in cap hell and needing to retool on the fly. He outplayed marino who made the title game that year and Elway who made the div rd and would make a SB a year later? No. He doesn't play in today's game, in his generation against his peers he was a mediocre QB who had some great games and couldn't win. I imagine what Mark could do w/ McNeil/Hector, Toon/Walker and Shuler. I guarantee you we wouldn't have lost every playoff game he started.
each game is different. at Miami 45-3 loss. team loss, we were awful all around. vs. LA Rams 17-3 L: 2nd straight game leading O to 3 pts at SF 24-10 L: fell behind 21-3 before he finally led us to a TD. vs. Pit 45-24 L: 24 pts is nice though 7 came on KO, another 3 INT game including one returned for TD in a game that was tied heading into the 4th. at Cin 52-21 L: another KR TD, this one opening KO to give us 7-0 lead. only trailed by 4 entering 2nd half, went scoreless. another 3 INTs by the way last 5 reg season games: 92-169, 941 yds, 2 TDs, 12 INTs, led O to 9 PPG Just outstanding! show me a 5 game stretch like that for Mark?
You are trying to compare apples to oranges. The NFL these days is hardly even the same sport anymore. Kris Jenkins was replaced by Pouha who did a respectable job. Can you even tell me who replaced Klecko? Perhaps Gastineau coming back for the playoffs along with a couple other injured players may have helped us against the Chiefs. Also, if Ryan was so great why didn't he start the following year? The team Parcells took over was so bad that it earned the # 1 overall selection two years in a row. Parcells brought in Curtis Martin (HOF), Vinny Testaverde (top 5 QB in Jet history), Kevin Mawae (HOF talent), Jason Fergeson (very good unsung NT), Bryan Cox, do I even need to go further with this. No one wanted to come here in free agency before Parcells came along. Reggie White chose Green Bay over New York. We were a joke back then compared to now. Get your facts straight I am talking about the year we went 10-1 and lost to Cleveland in double OT. The Broncos lost to the Giants that year. Elway and the Broncos were 7-0 when we beat them. Throwing stones at O'Brien and Namath just makes you look foolish.
I'm talking specifically about the defense blowing the lead to Cleveland. Can you think of any games Sanchez played in where the defense blew a 4th quarter lead and you feel Sanchez should have made more plays to win? Because whenever that situation occurred, the blame always seemed to rest with the defense.
I am not comparing the eras, I comparing our 80s team vs. the 80s and our current teams vs. current times. ben Rudolph/Tom Baldwin. Not bad players. Did you know we lost Klecko in 1982 and made an AFC Championship Game? sure, mark and company helped vs. KC and until Ryan went out of the Cle game then all of a sudden they all sucked. No one said Ryan was great, just saying Kenny was very overrated. The team Parcells took over was poorly coached but they had boatloads of talent. The man wasn't an idiot, he knew what he was walking into. He inherited O'Donnell, Murrell, Jumbo, Keyshawn, Chrebet, Anderson, baxter, O'Dwyer, Williams, Lewis, Green, Glenn, Mickens, Jones, Douglas, Coleman, Cascadden, Graham, BP's drafts were horrible, he hit on a couple of FAs badly overpaying. Vinny and Cox were signed late off the crap heap b/c no one else wanted them. he caught lightning in a bottle w/ them. we signed a million FAs, just b/c reggie didn't want to come here means nothing. we were a joke, BP changed the culture but he didn't rebuild the roster. even worse, you are saying in 1986 when he was horrible the last 5 games(2 TDs, 12 INTs, 9 PPG, 0-5) he was better than Elway(who led his team to the SB that year) and Marino?:rofl: it makes me look smart, like I am not a homer. I look at things realistically, Joe is the most overrated player in the history of the game. Ken is clearly overrated by Jet fans(interestingly enough he was booed more than mark his last few years) who see some youtube clips of some great passes and think he was better than he was.
The O doesn't accept any blame? a 1st down or 2 wins it, sure the D blew it but the D also kept Cle from scoring for nearly 2 more qtrs. giving the O chance after chance after chance.
I never said the offense was blameless but it doesn't come down to OT if the defense doesn't blow it. Clearly by the way you hammered the Jets defense over the last few years for giving up even the smallest of late leads, you'd have to agree the lion's share of the blame in a game where you lead by 10 with 4:14 left is on the defense.
They should have won the Cleveland game... its painful to remember how they lost that game, hello #99. I think they wipe the floor with Broncos had they met up in AFC Championship game even with all the injuries they suffered.
nowhere did I say the D doesn't deserve their share of the blame but if the O does what Pitt did to us in the 2010 title game and run out the clock we also win and the D gave the O a million chances to win in both OTs.
