"I'm a big energy believer," Gruden said. "I like guys with juice. I think you have to be a leader. I think you have to be able to motivate and stimulate these guys, relate to them -- veterans, young players. take it from the super bowl champion coach Jon Gruden. gimme someone like him. Gruden is in my top 5 of best coaches i've ever seen.
JLFDW, you're ignoring the fact that Mangini has only regressed since he's been here. Year 1: 10 wins. Year 2: 4 wins. Year 3: 9-10 wins. You're making it sound like he'd be fired for being a winner. He made the PO's his first season, in which he got bounced early. Then, a pathetic 4-win season in his second year. Now, in his third year, he's leading one of the worst collapses in this franchise's history, without surpassing his highest win total (from Year 1). How is that winning and improving? The Steelers stuck with Cowher AFTER he had success and showed improvement. Based on the above, Mangini hasn't quite improved the team; rather, he has plateaued them.
The Jets could resurrect Lombardi and have him coach, and the results wouldn't change. It'll always be SOJ. The franchise is cursed. Namath sold everything for that SB win that happened before most of us were even born. I like Cowher, so I don't want him going to the Jets and tarnishing his legacy. BB knew what would happen so he bounced as quickly as he could. Instead I just want to keep reading dumb arguments and Jets fans constantly sniping at each other, because as a Giants fan I find it funny. An inferior fanbase for an inferior franchise.
He is what is so special about him: 15 years as a coach 8 division titles 10 playoffs apperances (12 wins) 5 times to the AFC Champ game 1 Super Bowl Win As a Jets fan I would sign up for that today...Mangini is not bringing us that.
I think the positive about Cowher is he can put a team together. He wouldn't stand for defensive ineptness and Offensive struggles. When your passing game is in the toilet, you run and we have a run game. The pedigree he comes with is a kin to someone trying to climb a mountain and making it just a little bit closer each time-(super Bowl) eventually your going to make it (one in 10 years --Do I hear Neil O'Donald) Like anything , its a risk....Im game!
1. 10/4/9-10 is not regression. 2. You say he got bounced early as if the Jets should have been in the '06 playoffs in the first place. 3. Yes, we did 4 wins. Whether it was pathetic or not is really up to you. I don't look at shit that way, and it seems you have a problem with that. I personally would never call that team pathetic, and not just becaues I'm not a fan. For all the shit people seem to give Mangini for not being able to motivate his team and blah blha fucking blah, the 2007 Jets team were the only defense to hold the Pats offense to under 300 yards and 1 TD last year. And it wasn't early in the season when there was still that hope...the Jets were 3-11 then. Anyone care? Nope. Anyone care that our pass D was very good last year, especially in the second half? Nope. Mangini sucks at that too. I don't even know why I bother posting this shit...this is going to get turned right around into "but we were still 4-12" anyway. 4. The collapse sucks...but is not even done yet. I wonder if you choose to keep that in mind when you post. It only counts as a collapse if it's total, and it's only total if we lose Sunday. Sorry. 5. It's improving because this '08 team is way better than the '06. It's really that simple. The '09 team should be better than the '08 team. 6. And Cowher still would probably have been deballed if he dared to have 3 "terrible" seasons like he did. Thats my point. I have no idea why everyone is explaining to me that he had success beforehand. You think the NY media or the fans would give any coach a THREE SEASON PASS because of something he did beforehand? Mangini can't even get a 3 season pass and all thats happened since we hired him is that the Jets are taken a little bit more seriously. 7. I almost didn't respond to this post because of the regression statement. Please look up what regression is. 10-4-9/10 is not regression. 8. You're really not going to change my mind on not firing Mangini. It's not cause I'm stubborn. It's not cause I'm ignorant. I just really happen to think I'm right, and you have no concrete evidence that most of the shit said about the guy this week is right. NDMick - Can I ask why you're pushing this Mangini is not a motivator thing? The great motivator Jon Gruden (one of my favorite coaches too) has his team holding the exact same record as us right now, and a similar record over the past 3 seasons in Tampa. He hasn't found a young QB who can nail his offense down, and eventually he's going to have to groom one. Gruden is one of my person favorites cause he takes shit from no one and does his thing. Still, the dude has many obvious flaws...for all his offensive genius, the D is the reason Tampa has been so good over the years. So iunno...pick someone better if you're going to use a quote that implies that one coach can motivate and the other can't. I still say the best move is to fire Sutton and even consider firing Schotty if a good OC hits the market. I hear the guy from the Browns might hit the market if Crennel leaves...I loved what he did last year and many Browns fans still like him and hope the team holds onto him. If he hits the market...which is probable cause coaching staffs usually are gone when the coach that brought them in is gone...I wouldn't mind seeing him and Crennel coordinating our O and D for us. I don't know how to spell the dudes name...I'm too lazy to google and too nice to want to butcher it...not an easy name...Polish or something.
It's regressing because this years team has a far more talent than the '06 team. You keep talking about Mangini's 3 years and people wanting him out and ignoring the fact that Cowher had a shit ton of success already. Like I said, someone who has a proven track record gets more of a break. My opinion is that if we have the opportunity to bring in Cowher we should because he is a great coach. As much as I'm annoyed with the current CS, I'd prefer to keep Mangini for the sake of continuity and get new more experienced/proven coordinators if Cowher isn't available to us and the season ends Sunday. If the season ends the following Sunday my opinion doesn't change.
8-3 to 9-6 surely is regression. you can't just look at the win totals from each season as if they occur in a vacuum, how they are achieved is just as important, and this team has regressed in the last quarter of the season plus. what progress have you seen in this team this season? great, they are better than last years awful team. I'm sorry, that alone doesn't indicate a quality coaching job. by your logic, 6 wins would be progress simply because it is more than four.
Cowher is the best guy out there right now. Just as Woody and Tanny ditched Penny and brought in Favre at the last minute, they'll do the same with Cowher. They WANT to do whatever it takes to win.
I do think that Dware is right about one thing you can't even remotely compare our patience as a franchise to that of Pittsburgh. If Cowher had ran into the same situation even with his success I guarantee that the fan base would be calling for his head the exact same way that Reid is getting run out of Philadelphia with the cliche he has been here too long and we need a change to get out of the mud that we are stuck in. If Cowher was here he would have never lasted 15 years to finally break through for that super bowl ring, we would have booted him labeling him another Marty Schottenheimer.
It's still not a regression. Nor is there a trend showing regression. Or anything really. Why can't this just be...wrong? Is it that hard for people to admit that they might have BS'd a little? Yes, we're more talented than the '06 team, but lets play with some things here: 1. Our schedules way tougher than it was in '06. 2. This is the first year for some of the teams major talents. I realize in you guys' world all the kinks have been ironed out already and everyone is performing at optimal levels, but in real life kinks take time to get out. 3. I'll admit that the coaching isn't as aggressive as they were in '06. But they were aggressive at one point, hell they were aggressive at one point THIS YEAR...it's not like it fucking died it's that this bored chose to erase this stuff from their memory due to 4 bad games. I'll give this one up too because it's going to go nowhere. Yes, Cowher's track record earned him a little credit. But it's also true that few, if anyone, here would allow a coach 3 seasons of sub-par records. Mangini can't even get his full 3 seasons in and people want him gone. I agree with this to a point. I don't see the amazingness of Bill Cowher, but I also realize I can't help it if others do. Bill Cowher landed an NFL dream job with the Steelers...in many ways...I just don't think he'd replicate his success in many other places. Plus, I don't understand why Jets fans have such itchy trigger fingers when it comes to coaches. Getting rid of them as soon as you think you sense danger isn't going to fuckin...do jack shit. I realize I'm underrating Cowher in this thread, but thats because I think this team/franchise needs to learn to actually commit to something first. When Mangini first came here, it was obvious he had a plan. Despite the results this year (a terrible 9-7 or 10-6 record), the team is vastly improved from the one he took over. The team is likely to improve rather than regress going foward. Fuck the itchy trigger finger.
Why? They're being judged and looked at in a vacuum by one side...but for me to do it is wrong? I actually think I go out of my way to NOT look at things in a vacuum here. I mean our '07 is being called pathetic by posters because of the win total...but anyone who watched this team in '07...and I know most of this board did...saw that they never quit once during that "pathetic" season.
There's one poin that I think needs to be said: Bringing in Bill Cowher will drive Leon Washington out of NY. Cowher never used a modern running game when he was in Pittsburgh. The smallest back he ever worked with was Willie Parker for God sake. Cowher comes in here, Leon gets relegated solely to KR status, our most explosive offensive weapon becomes completely marginalized by being forced to run up the middle on every f*cking play.
Willie Parker: 5-10, 209 Leon Washington: 5-8, 202 I think Cowher would use Leon a lot more than the current staff does.
First, stand next to Leon Washington and try to say he's 5'8", you won't convince anyone. He's about as tall as Maurice Jones-Drew. Second, if you've ever watched a Steelers game you'd know exactly how Cohwer used Parker, up the gut 5/8 of every running play. He doesn't know how to use a modern running game. He doesn't like a modern running game. HB's who run outside of the tackle box give him night-terrors. If Leon gets used by Cowher it's as a gimmick player and kick returner only. After that, Leon walks and signs with a team that can give him carries.
Just for argument's sake, how is that different than now? Do you really think having 1 offensive touch is that much better than 0?
not quite. Bill Cower is being judged on 15 years of success as a head coach where he went to the AFC Championship game more times than he even had a losing season. that is judging his entire body of work, which nobody can claim wasn't a success, as opposed to simply reducing the criteria of success to simply whether he won more games one year than prior. he lost to the Patriots twice in the AFC Championship game (they won the Superbowl both times, no shame there), the Broncos (went on to win back to back, no shame there), beat the Colts and lost to the Cowboys (3 championships in 4 years, no shame there), and the Chargers (that team was pretty good, but the only real shame in his AFC Championship losses). what vacuum is Bill Cower being judged in?
