The talent of our interior OL, maybe questionable...but one thing people are overlooking is the cohesion factor. Every single OL coach and Lineman in the league insists that this is the most important aspect of building a quality line. We will at least be returning 4/5 starters, and the people up for that 5th job were all part of the program last season. Our OL was not great last season, but it was at least average(we wouldnt have made the playoffs if it wasnt). When you factor in the cohesion factor, 2 highly talented 2nd year player's development, and a much better main running threat..there is no reason to believe that Line play will not improve. It may not be significant improvements, but I believe we will see progress.
This all sounds well and good, but you're completely ignoring the fact that a) We're most likely losing our best guard from last year. Regardless of how good or bad you say he is at this point, he's still our best guard. b) Kendall was a huge part of building the cohesiveness on the offensive line and bringing the rookies along. That is if you believe what Mangold and D'Brick say. Yes they're not rookies anymore, but you better believe that veteran leadership on the o-line is still very valuable. You've highlighted some reasons why the line could be a little better, but completely ignored a major factor in why it's going to be worse.
Dude, I know it sounds harsh, but I am talking about the line as a whole and its ability to run block. Just did some research and suck is a very apt description. We were ranked 20th overall in rushing offense, but the stat that really matters is ypc where we ranked one step above total suck at 31st with a paltry 3.5 ypc average. http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-RUSHING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=7 That's worse than Detroit, Cleveland, and Oaktown! Perhaps our run-blocking can be described as blowing baboon dick. And we have really done nothing to upgrade and might possibly even be downgrading. The only good thing I can say is that if we get all 5 guys back this year, they may play better as a unit, but from suck comes suck.
Wow U are really looking thru green colored glasses IMHO. Ability is the key & for sure Clement & Moore lack ability & even if Kendall came back he is really on the downside of his ability. Brick sorry to say showed that he lacks that "it" that lifts someone into the elite of the NFL which means that the star of the OL is a second year player Mangold.
You make some good points, and you may very well be right...but here are a few counterpoints... 1. Kendall's skills were dwindling quite quickly last season. The 3 possible incumbents all were in the system last year and all have pretty good talent..what they lack is experience. We may actually end up w/ an upgrade talent wise..in fact I'm sure we will. 2. Mangold and Brick were not drafted in the 1st round for talent alone. Both are considered highly mature/intelligent individuals, capable of not only fending for themselves but being leaders. Lets see if they can establish those skills in their 2nd year. 3. Kendall doesnt want to be here. I can't think of a WORSE thing a veteran who is supposively a leader is supposed to provide. If anything him returning at LG ccould in fact, detract from the overall line's performance.
You are looking through steve wonder's glasses. OL is NOT based solely on ability. Any OL coach or lineman in this league will tell you, that the biggest factor in an O-line's performance is cohesion. It factors into line calls, timing and overall chemistry. Unfortunately, not everything in the NFL is based on having all-pro's at every position like you want. I'm not sure how you can proclaim that brick lacks "It". As a rookie, he started every single game at the line's anchor position, for a playoff team, faced several all-pro's and held his own 90% of the time. I'm not sure you can possibly ask of a rookie LT. To have "It" does he have to walk on water and do backflips after every 1st down?
If you say so, I didn't see it, but again neither did a lot of people until he started his bitch fest. I don't see how you can be sure we'll have a better talent in there - this sounds absurd to me but I've been wrong before. This is a very good point. I can definitely see Mangold coming into his own as a leader of this O-line, and perhaps this is all by design to push one or both of them to accept/take that role. Still, veteran leadership is something that cannot be taken for granted. At this point it's an impossible situation. Neither side is budging and it seems like we have to get rid of him. I don't think it's a matter of him not wanting to be here, I think he just wants his money which he's not going to get from the Jets. I'm 99% sure he will receive at least what he's asking for from another team if the Jets do get rid of him.
Sorry to say U IMHO you have been listening to to many so called "experts" in the media with your post. Without ability you cannot have a capable player at any position. As WWS said time will tell if you theroy overcomes ability
JMo I don't think Bears oline , is way better than Jets Oline. I think the conference he played in, might have been more reason for his sucess. Reason maybe why his numbers are not as good in AFC. Vikings who run defense was one of the best completely shut down thomas Jones. Let look at thomas Jones game Log for last year. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187390/gamelogs/2006
Do you hear bells... I hear bells... this thread is AWESOME!!! <MUCH SARCASM> I can't wait for the offseason to be over already... check out the sig... thats how I feel about this
This thead is on the mark. While we are a decent pass blocking line, our run blocking is poor. I don't see how the back ups will improve this. Our two crown jewls sit behind this OL, TJ and CP. With that being the case you would think Tannenbaum would have been more proactive in taking OL in a draft that where OL was deep in quality and value. Instead we gave away 4 picks (3 in the top 100) and essentially ignored our OL situation. God forbid that Mangold or Brick gets hurt.
Hey, I've got an idea...if you don't like a thread, don't post in it. If you hadn't noticed, there is a good o-line discussion going on in spite of the useless posters. I know, why not start a thread about how you've got a better idea...oh wait, you don't cause you're just in here mucking up someone else's idea. P.S. This post is not directed specifically at you but all the mooks that posted retarded comments throughout and didn't add to the conversation.
What the hell has been said in this thread that hasn't been said 20 times in the weekly Pete Kendall thread?
Other things have also been said. U may wish to check them out. In fact Kendall is a very small part of the conversation
Every Pete Kendall debate turns into a debate about the state of the O-line, the lack of run-blocking ability last season, and the fact that we haven't addressed OL seriously this extremely boring offseason. Every one. Not that I think it is an unimportant issue, but there are so many other aspects to the debate than the same story over and over again. In fact, the only thing I think I haven't read in other threads was the term 'baboon dick'. Of which I approve. We don't have enough conversations about baboon dicks. BTW, it's pretty funny to see you bash Kurt for 'listening to the so-called experts' after you spent all last season bashing Ferguson for what the so-called experts said on draft day.
Ah yes but my judgements are determined by what they show on the field no matter what any "expert" said about Brick whereas "cohesion" is a theroy & while it maybe a factor if the players have ability it sure is not if they are just medicore or worse then medicore
Should anyone should listen to you Mr. negativity. How is it you find negativity in any situation? Kareem mckenzie went from the rotaion to full time starter , so the chances of finding someone to rotate in or contibute to the point of starting at the desired position are good. Have some faith not an opposing oppion!
Ah the lightening in the bottle theroy. When you see you have players with ability then you can begin to have faith until then you have to take a far more realistic approached then you sketched out. Just remember that NOBODY wanted Clements this off season when he was a UFA. That is NOBODY that says volumes of what 31 GMs & HCs thought of his abilities.
