this is so spot on, well said. this team has been reactive not proactive.going back to the nugent pick because we missed a fg. changing h.c.'s every 3-4 years doesn't help either. mangini dumping vilma was a sin. woody needs to have some patience,idzic has to be strong enough to stay strong when the writers are burning him in the press and if rex is here or there is a new h.c. he has to develope the talent and share the vision of the g.m. no needle moving acquistions, load the team with good players and stars will emerge. don't reach for the hot f.a. and don't give picks to go get 1 player to fill the biggest hole. everyone knew going in to that 2008 draft that it was a 5 man draft with the jets drafting 6th. gholston was the best of some seriously questionable of the top 10 picks. but he had success against jake long and the combine and build to piut him that slot. couple that with the jets need for a pass rusher and there was no way around the selection. in retrospect, it is rare to see a team whiff on back to back top 10 picks and still not sink to the bottom of the league. that could be a testament to rex's coaching ability
Then call me lazy because what this franchise needs, what we have not have for decades, is a true franchise quarterback. A true franchise quarterback makes a GM and a coaching staff HAVE good vision- go ask Bill Bellichick and now John Fox and Chuck Pagano. Go ask Pete Carroll who sucked as a coach before he got Russell Wilson and what that team is going to do over the next 10 years. The Packers have been great since 1993 and basically sucked for the preceding 25 years. Not because of coaching or because of the front office or vision, but because of Favre and Rogers. The Colts were not great over the last decade because of coaching or front office or vision but because of Manning, and they are going to CONTINUE to be great NOT because of coaching or front office or vision but because of Luck. And it's not just 2 or 3 teams, there are quite few of them now. It's that guy that gives you a shot in every game, a guy who is a strength, not a passenger not a liability, a guy who can go out there and consistently win games. Is it Geno? Could be. But NOBODY knows at this point, notwithstanding everything you read here punctuated with multiple exclamation points. If Geno is a true franchise QB, then we'll be a winning franchise. If not, we need to keep drafting until we GET a true franchise QB. Not lazy, just realistic about what the NFL is all about. _
It boggles the mind how some football fans-no, supposed Jet fans-either forget this or just dismiss it like it's irrelevant. It was a FIVE PLAYER DRAFT. And we had the number 6 pick. We were dealt a shit hand and Gholston looked to be the best option at that pick, especially given the need. _
2008, five player draft, whatever... Consider this (assuming Sanchez moves on): out of the Jets draft classes of 2008, 2009 and 2010, there are only TWO players remaining on the Jet roster, one a borderline bust (Ducasse) and the other a so-so CB 1st rd pick Kyle Wilson. Out of three consecutive years, only two players....
Not sure why you quoted me, I was talking specifically about the Gholston pick, nothing about any other pick or draft. _
That I understand. I was essentially saying "looking beyond the Gholston pick (i.e., the big picture)" the Jets' scouting and FO wheeling & dealing resulted in three straight drafts that ended up yielding no long-term locks. These would've been guys entering their 6th, 5th & 4th years of play, hardly over the hill. What a void. That's what I was focusing on.
Just went back and looked at the 2008 draft, what crap! Only 8 pro bowlers in the first, 3 in the second, 2 in the third and 1 in the fourth and only 3 the rest of the draft. Oooof. _
So what you're saying is "Call me when we get a franchise QB because before then it's just a waste of time". Just don't tell that to the Ravens or the Giants who brought home 3 rings in the last 5 years with avg (or in the Giants case below avg) QBs who got hot in the playoffs (kinda like Sanchez) plus a front 4 that tore undefeated Brady and new ass hole. Having a franchise QB is the easiest way to win a bunch of close games, but by no means a guarantee to win the big one. Hell, the great Peyton Manning has been a franchise QB for years and has been knocked out of the playoffs TWICE by the franchise QB-less NY Jets. And Brady has lost 2 SBs to the franchise QB-less Giants.
No, I didn't say it was a waste of time or that we shouldn't try to build a consistent winner, just that in order to build a true winner over an extended period of time is to find THE GUY. I think the Pats, GB, Colts success over the past decade(s) has less to do with coaching, front office or vision and more to do with the QB. And the reason why the Raiders, Bengals, Chiefs, Bills, Fins, Browns, Jags, Bucs, Cards (except when they had a true franchise guy), Skins, Rams (see: Cards above, same guy) and the Jets have been mediocre or worse has less to do with coaching, front office or vision and more to do with the QB. JMHO. _
i think there are several ways of build a SB winning team. But one way not to do it , is to trade up for a number of players (Sanchez , Greene) in important positions that doesn't pan out. As simple as that.
Your point has some merit, but you can look at it both ways. When you trade up for players like Sanchez and Greene and they don't pan out, it hurts the team two ways: !) You get a player at a higher pick that is unproductive and you lose draft picks. The draft in a small way is like the lottery, the more chances you have the better chance of getting a winner. BTW, They needed a QB when they moved up for Sanchez, they took a chance and it didn't work. 2) Your premise of not trading up doesn't work sometimes... Revis ...need I say more. I follow the draft as close as anyone at TGG and it's monday morning QBing years later. I think your point is a reflection of Tanny and his lack of patience, so I don't expect any crazy deals with our new GM. Overall since Rex has been Head Coach, I ve been very happy with most of the defensive players brought in....Wilk, Davis, Couples, Richardson, Milliner. Our front seven, with one more addition of a stud OLB, like Anthony Barr or Van Noy next year, will make them the best in the league.
Nothing wrong with trading up. Constantly trading up though, especially for a project pick that you know has got to be a big risk, is a sure-fire way to dismantle a roster.
Franchise QB. (it's that simple). And many would argue Eli (while not an Elite QB) is a franchise QB who can score you a ton (this year aside). There are plenty in the league and plenty without them (Rodgers, Brees, Manning(s), Brady, Wilson, Griffin(?), Luck, Rothleisburger, Flacco, M Ryan etc) We have not had a consistent QB in Years (since Vinny's 1 and done year in 98) and never had one for a stretch of time. That's what we need. Unless you miraculously hit on all your drafts on Def & Offense playmakers, then you just need a game manager (i.e. Sanchez). I hope Geno can be the guy, but rookie years are usually tough for impatient fans.
Consistently trading up in the draft builds instability into the roster. Fewer young cheap players coming into the building means greater vulnerability to injuries, increased pressure for the trade-ups to work out leading to bad roster decisions over time, and probably most importantly it throws the team into veteran free agency with a vengeance to fill holes and that is expensive against the cap and results in the team buying into a declining player base. The modern cap-restricted NFL with a 7 round draft is already a dicey proposition over any span greater than a few years. Taking the draft and making it a supplement instead of the main engine of renewal just magnifies the random factors already in play. It leaves a franchise with no place to safely return too when the storms really kick up. The reason the Jets were good in the late 90's and early 00's was that they made a lot of draft picks from 1997 to 2000. Many of the picks didn't work out but they found some real gems anyway because they made so many picks. The teams roster then aged out with injury attrition a real factor and it took a deep draft in 2006 to reset things a bit. Then the Jets started condensing the draft into a few picks and even though they hit it big on some of those picks they weren't able to put together enough talent to win. Based on that reality they had to hit the free agent market in a big way to get over the top. When the free agents aged out rapidly the Jets declined to what we are experiencing now. If you had to pick an organizational philosophy to follow a good one would be to draft at least 7 players every year including using all 3 of your early picks and then sign an occasional free agent to fill a hole opened up by injuries or a run of players not working out. Using that philosophy the team would always have access to cheap emerging talent and would not run the risk of several vets declining every year over a multi-year period and hollowing out the roster. Parity means it's very hard to build a dynasty at this point. Not using your draft picks to accumulate talent makes it impossible.
WW and Bradway nailed it. While Woody has not been a great owner, he is far from the worst in the NFL. Tanny's constant trading up gave us a small window and little depth, once that window passed due to age this became a rebuild that many do not have the patience for. Geno maybe the answer, but I would not mind further investment at the position untill we are sure. If Idzik is serious about the mantra of competition for your position, he will bring in someone next year when Mark is cut in a cap move. We have an obvious lack of talent at the offensive skill positions. We also need more presence off the edge on defense. The problem has only been made worse by injuries this season. Add into that some investment in the secondary and you make steps towards fixing the big problems with the team. One should keep in mind this all can probly not be accomplished in one offseason and in a cap based league you will always have weak areas on your team. Too many fans around here fail to grasp that.
JStokes, well said. I don't consider recognizing the primary and most crucial need as lazy. It might not be the complete answer for long term success but its a cardinal element of it. I'm in agreement with you that the center piece of any winning franchise is a stud QB. No matter how good the rest of the pieces are, you need a QB with a complete skill set, that is feared enough by the competition to keep their defense from playing " dare to beat me with this or that" and overload the D accordingly. Without it, when it comes times for the playoffs and beyond, good teams they will game plan you to death and exploit your weaknesses offensively. Examples of this are the Ravens, with arguably one of the best if not the best D, could not pull the trigger till Flacco had the game of his life in the SB. Same with the Giants with Eli. Conversely, when Brady was given zero time to pull his magic against the Giants the whole thing collapsed. When the chips are down for the big one. Usually the team with the best QB figures a way to win the game. But, that is not enough, once you are blessed with such a QB, you need the leadership and the vision to continuously upgrade the rest of the pieces in a cap strapped environment so you do not become a one pony show. Payton suffered a bit from that syndrome. Lastly, there is one other important element IMHO, that is game strategy to suit the personnel they have and weaken the competition personnel. Like when NE went to the 2 monster TEs, or the wide open play action O of many others. Great CS reinvent the game every year. You can not remain stale, with the old fashion ground and pound when the rest of the league is a high scoring run and shoot.
I look at Andy Daulton as the prime example. Decent enough QB but not quite "franchise". The Bengals are going to continue to suck until they get a GREAT QB. Not coaching or front office or vision. A franchise QB. That's the NFL. _
What is this organization lacking ??? $$$$$$$$$ With PSL revenues slashed by 40% from what was expected, with ticket sales and ancilliary merchandise down, Woody was the one who said not to pay Revis, to keep Rex (which I agree with, but he didn't want to pay 2 coaches), and was so PO'd at Sanchez for having to pay him all that $$$ while getting no performance, and to NOT make any big moves in FA. When was the last time we signed a quality decent-$$$$ FA -- think about it. The team was probably projected to make $30-$50 MM a year in profit and it's probably making half of that. Woody isn't going to dip into his personal funds to make up the shortfall.
