I don't think there is any way the Lions will let Avril walk, nor is there much of a chance the Jets could fit him into their financial plans. Then again, I wouldn't put anything past Tanny.. but still. I think we are much more likely to target a lower level guy who Rex thinks has the ability to bust out in his scheme. Either that, or a cheap veteran with question marks like Taylor last year.
I got some bad info in regards to the on goings of a ERFA, mistake on my part. Free agency isn't my strong suit, especially when it comes to contract situations. Still, according to what I've seen, the Browns will actively pursue a DE when free agency opens up, pair that up with them drafting Sheard, he's not looking like a favorite to start. He might be a situational passrusher for them if anything, so I can't see them turning down a late pick for him, which would exceed their original investment...
I have a guy I liked and still do that won't be expensive and would fit at DE/OLB. He has a Jets connection, unrestricted and played in a defense just like our last year. Jason Trusnik (CLE) With Cleveland probably moving back to a 4-3 he will be there for the picking and shouldn't be expensive at all. Reasons to get him: 1st he knows the defense style 2nd knows the Jets and New York 3rd an unrestricted free agent 4th current team won't his talent so no bidding war 5th won't cost us draft pick 6th Jet fans generally like him
It happens. ERFA is one of the strangest things out there. The Texans are going to get to retain Arian Foster at $250k a year because of it. Perhaps we can hope it gets eliminated in the new CBA. Otherwise, I sure hope you're right and they'd agree to deal him and grab someone who definitely fits the 4-3.
Please tell me this isn't serious. The answer is...Jason Trusnik? I'd rather have one of the 49er LBs. Noticed Manny Lawson is on that Pro Football Focus article Magilla posted. Maybe I misjudged him.
You said it, it's a truly baffling subject(to me anyway). They might jump at the chance to get a draft pick from their 3-4 left overs, they have to rebuild that 4-3 after piecing out most of it the past 2 years under Mangini...
Connor Barwin 250 pound DE, of the Houston Texans could be made available. (just a rumor from a Texan's beat writer, who thinks he may be the odd man out)
I have no problem paying for Avril financially. Its the mortgaging of draft picks that is the problem for me. You mentioned Avril being a top prospect when he came out, correct me if I am wrong, but i believe he went at the top of round 3, if he didnt, he went in the second round. Avril was a top prospect found outside of the top 10, meaning its not impossible to find quality pass rushers later in the draft, we just haven't been lucky enough to have somebody fall to us. We definitely have to start replacing those two. I personally would be a happy camper if Bryan Thomas was released tomorrow. The guy is a wasted talent who should have never been drafted when we had both J-Abe and Sean Ellis under contract for another 3 years, especially with Ed Reed on the board. Anyways, I would rather we kick Cactus to the curb, especially if it means it allows us to keep all three of Holmes, Edwards and Cromartie. Next years draft we could see another Tanny style trade up to go and get a top pass rusher if there is somebody available...
I'm not wild about giving up a 1st and 3rd, either. You know me, I don't like trading up as a rule, but unless an OLB prospect drops to the bottom of the first round next year or into the 2nd round, I think it would cost more for the Jets to get a topflight OLB prospect, otherwise they'll come out of that draft without one again. After not trading up in the 1st this year, I think Tanny will be primed to make a big move up. No one yet has answered my question about what it would cost to move up into the top 10 or even top 5 in next year's draft to get that stud prospect. I'm thinking that at a minimum, it would cost the Jets top 4 picks, and even that would likely be inadequate. They'd probably have to use both their 2012 & 2013 1st round pick as well as their 2nd in 2012, and even that may not be enough. At that price, a 1st and a 3rd for a proven NFL starting quality player would be a bargain. The cap would be the big issue, but if they got rid of Thomas, that should me manageable.
A couple of comments in this thread baffle me a bit. The OLB need "overrated" or "overstated"? IMO that's absurd. We have two guys who are at best average or maybe slightly above average. Both are VERY expensive and both are on the wrong side of 30. Even though the Jets were 6th in sacks, that doesn't tell the real story in terms of pressuring opposing QBs. Rex himself has said that the sacks stat is misleading and he prefers more pressure rather than just sacks. Add a stud OLB to this D, and the Jets could have perhaps the best D ever. The pass rush should definitely be better with the addition of Wilkerson and Ellis, but how much better is the question if they don't upgrade the OLB spot even with a situational rusher. Jason Trusnik is THE answer? Hardly. He was an excellent STs player for the Jets and Rex seemed to like the guy. He could possibly be an answer, as he might be better than Satele or Westermann as a backup, but that's not saying a lot. I have no problems signing the guy to help the depth, but that better not be the only move to address the OLB position. With Lawson being a FA, he could be the cheapest and best (considering the price of draft picks, talent/potential, age and potential cap cost) option. It will be interesting to see if the Jets make a play for him. I'd rather add him and take a shot than have either Cro or Holmes. Holmes is gonna cost too much for his attitude and I think he takes on too much importance in the offense and is too much a "me" player rather than a team player.
I'm confused. You don't mind paying Avril, but you're hoping to keep all three of Holmes, Edwards, and Cromartie? Those are two mutually exclusive ideals right there, my friend. You're not going to be able to pay all 4 of them.
Yes, the OLB need is overstated. I've seen it on brought up on here as the difference between whether we win a Super Bowl. I've seen people state that it's all or nothing with one of the big three franchisees. THAT is what's absurd. The two new big bodies up front don't eliminate our need to add to the OLB position, but they do diminish that need somewhat. We have to add someone through FA at this point, but a situational pass rusher would suffice. He simply doesn't have to be a dominant all around OLB. And Pace will improve. Westermann has more promise than Trusnik ever had. If he can fulfill it, he can be an asset at both LB positions. With Lawson, you're getting a younger Bryan Thomas unless he can step up the pass rush. There's been very little difference between the two in recent seasons. I haven't been impressed by him in the games I've seen. However, Pro Football Focus certainly runs the numbers well, so it may be that he's generating more pressure than it's ever appeared to me.
Avril isn't a realistic option, i'll explain what I was trying to before, below. Cutting thomas so we can keep holmes, edwards and cromartie is at least somewhat of an option. Hell if tossing thomas aside meant we could keep the aformentioned trio, I don't think many fans would be agreeing to keep BT. Back to Avril, if he was a FA I would break the bank for him. But I don't want to pay the draft pick price for a guy who has never played standing up. At least if he is a FA and fails, you only lose money. If you trade those picks for him and then pay him tons of money, its too much of a risk to the future if he doesn't work out. He isn't a realistic option because he is not a FA and would cost us too much in DP's for the related uncertainty... I'll go back to my original point. If we are willing/going to trade a 1 and a 3 for a pass rusher, then lets try like hell to get Woodley or Tamba Hali, guys who have proven that they can play great standing up.
I think there's a good chance we bring back JT another year. And I wouldn't be against it... I mean, if we find a better option good, otherwise JT will be able to bring some sack and hurries...
LOVE to have Trusnik back... he can be the DeVito of OLBs imo. ANdheven if he doesn't make a strong impact there he's still a ST ace. I bet Westhoff will be pushing to sign him if he's really a UFA (and if we don't have stupid final 4 rules).
You seem to admit that there is a need for an OLB, yet say that it is overstated. For 2011, I'll agree that a situational pass rusher might suffice. I agree that Pace will improve playing behind the revamped DL, and Ellis and Wilkerson do diminish the need somewhat. What about both Pace's and Thomas' absurd contracts in 2012? You don't mention that. What are your plans for addressing that? Keep them both and pay them? Worry about it next year? Release both and have nothing but Westermann to replace them? What? That's why I think the OLB position takes on greater importance than it might otherwise, especially since younger players can take some time to develop if the Jets go that route. Also, wouldn't you rather have a stud at OLB, a guy who IS dominant rather than just a situational rusher? Wouldn't you like to see what the Jets' D would be like with a real pass rushing threat at OLB? I sure would. I didn't know about Trusnik vs Westermann. That's why I mentioned it as a possibility. I suspect that you're right that Westermann is better, but how about the other OLB backup? There is no question that Lawson has underachieved. That could be due to a flaw in his character, differences of opinion with the CS in SF, or poor coaching. He certainly has the speed and physical ability. I'd like to see what Rex could do with him. Even if he is only a younger Bryan Thomas, with his better coverage ability and greater speed, I think that would be an upgrade. Unless they had to pay Lawson a lot more than they're paying Thomas, I think he could possibly be cheaper too.
We'' just have to agree to disagree. I think getting Avril is a lot more realistic financially than being able to sign Holmes, Cro and Edwards. IMO Edwards should be kept no matter what and Holmes should go no matter what. I don't care if they can afford him. I don't like him and think the Jets would be better of without him, both offensively and in using the money that would go to him elsewhere. The idea of just cutting Thomas is ridiculous to me. Who's going to play his position, Westermann? Who would back him up? The drop off in play would be huge and would have a much greater detrimental effect on the team than losing Holmes or Cromartie. I'm sorry, but that idea is just silly imo. I think Avril has played standing up. How else do you account for the 8 passes defensed??? Besides, he has proven that he can rush the QB and that's the main reason the Jets would get him. As Rex said, he doesn't care about the coverage aspect so much with his OLBs. In addition, even if he struggled in coverage, which I doubt, he couldn't be any worse than Thomas or Pace due to his speed, he can also play 4-3 DE very well. He would not fail or be a waste. He is already a proven commodity, and thus would be much safer than a DE-OLB conversion prospect in the draft. You still haven't answered the question or addressed the issue of trading up in the 2012 draft, either. That would be a LOT more expensive than a 1st and 3rd. You guys just aren't being realistic or rational about this. Again, with the Hali and Woodley. That's just nuts. There is no way either team would trade that player. Even if they did, they wouldn't do it for just a 1st and 3rd round draft pick, and in all likelihood, they'd never trade him to the Jets. That is TOTALLY unrealistic.
