OK then I can understand where U R coming from. Still cannot fully support you but at least I understand your reasoning
Exactly how good the Giants will be this year is certainly up for debate. The NFC East looks to be alot more competitive this season and I think the Giants will take a pretty big step back. The Jets defense did do a very good job in the first half, but once the Giants decided to stop letting Manning throw the ball most of the downs they marched down the field with Barber. The Jets did look much better in coverage then they have in the past, but they also weren't generating much of a pass rush, but even with all day to throw Manning made poor throws and decisions. As for the offense I don't think there's too much to say, with the young offense I think it's going to be tough to have long, sustained drives without a reliable RB in the backfield. Chad fools no one and the one big play we saw only came when the Giants foolishly blitzed against a team that hadn't thrown more then 5 yards past the LOS all game. While the offense may be more "explosive" this year I think in terms of production and scoring points its going to be as bad if not worse then last season.
I usually agree with you but I'm not there this time. Chad is too fragile to be relied upon even if he's at the top of his game, which we have not seen since the broken wrist in 2003. Naming Chad as the starting QB was the safe choice for Mangini, although it will lead to some panic and scrambling when Chad inevitably goes down.
Unlike in the past we have backup for Chad. It makes sense to start him for a few games, we have other options once the OL has some confidence.
Who is the clear choice as backup? If Mangini goes with Ramsey we're stuck with a guy who has repeatedly failed when given a starting job in the past. If he goes with Clemens then we have a raw rookie thrust into the spotlight by injury. If he goes with Brooks Bollinger then we have Brooks Bollinger... Panic, confusion and doubt. I really believe the Jets would have been better off making a clear decision on one of the other three QB's and left Chad waiting in the wings in case he was needed. The best progression in my opinion would have been Bollinger (yes, I know, but still...) followed by Chad if the Jets couldn't win a few games early and then on to Clemens for the last 4 games of the year. That would have been a proactive choice by Mangini to move forward. What we have instead is a deathwatch on Chad and no clear follow-up plan in sight.
It definitely is a surprising post and most of the time I agree with you, Winston. I'm not sure about your basic premise, however, in the sentence above (not that it's a premise, really, just an opening statement). But I don't know how naming Chad Pennington as the QB translates into us abandoning "rebuild mode" and instead turns us into "making a run this year." Firstly, I don't see it as black and white. You can still try to make a run while rebuilding, it's just that you've got to get your priorities straight, which I think we still have. Secondly, naming Chad doesn't indicate a shift from "rebuild" because in my mind, this is decision that buys time until Clemens learns the ropes. In fact, I see this move as being entrenched in the "rebuild mode." But again, nothing wrong with "rebuild mode" first and if we get to the palyoffs, so be it. In my mind, bringing in Barlow signals more of a "run mode" than naming Chad. I'm still perplexed as to why Tangini brought this guy in for next year's 4th round. The answer is that they're carefully trying to straddle the fence between "rebuild" first and "make a run" second. This is how I see it. If we can make a run while rebuilding, fine. But I haven't seen enough evidence of Tangini abandoning rebuild for the here and now, so at this point in time I still think our primary focus is "rebuild."
How do we have no clear follow-up plan. In your own words you would have gone Bolly, Penny, Clemens. So if Penny goes down, why not start Bolly and then give Clemens the last 4 games of the season. Sorry, but that didn't make much sense.
You know Winston...Im sure Im not the only one scratching my friggin head here. Where did this optimism come from...lol. There are two reasons I can buy in to what you are defending here..and rather well may I add. 1. The rest of the NFL, for the most part, sucks. There seems to be a changing of the guard going on in the NFL. How long can a team continue to dominate during the season and die in the playoffs (Colts). How long can a team continue to lose coaches and quality players and still rely on one man to carry the team (Patriots). The Steelers as far as Im concerned, seem to buckle the logic the most. I can see them repeating in a semi dominating performance this year. After that you have the Ravens, Broncos etc..lets put it this way...you have teams that have nice..nice rosters. So if your point is that the Jets could flirt with making the playoffs...I can see your point. 2. The mouthpiece escapes to Kansas City. You know I totally agree with you that this is a big one. There are many players on this roster that have not reached their potential..whether it be poorly trained...poorly groomed...careers that have been in a slight downward trend since the day Herm arrived (Sean Ellis comes to mind.. yet he has had a very nice preseason so far). You have about 5 defensive backs that were drafted by Bradway and coached by the parrot that never seemed to hit their potential. It could easliy be noted that not one player reached their true potential during the Herm era that was drafted by Bradway (Some might say Vilma...I think Vilma has been a very good player...a great argument could be made that he has not come close to reaching his potential). When a team is so poorly trained and not in NFL football shape which seems to be the case with the Jets the last 5 years...its tough to understand how important that is. The biggest problem I have with your argument is pretty simple though..the first year syndrome. Parcells...BB....if we are going to compare this coach with his mentors..struggled in first years with most of their teams. Parcells took over a 1-15 team with the Jets...but history has told us that could have been the greatest 1-15 team of all time. BB struggled with the Browns..and with the Pats. Saban did well with the Dolphins...but that was after a horrible start..and a very easy schedule down the road.
I agree with your point about rebuilding and making a run, but I think you have it backwards... imo it's "win first", "rebuild second"... while rebuilding certainly may be more important right now, it isn't the attitude Mangini is going to try to get in the Jets head. Never once will you hear "rebuilding" coming out of the Jets, even if that is the reality of it. Too many people assume that the Jets are just going to tank this season, make "progress" with a bunch of young players, get a high draft pick next season, a few necessary team adjustments, and then be primed to go for the Super Bowl... no, that is very nice sounding, but it won't happen. The reality is no matter what deficiencies the team has, Mangini is going to try to sellout week in and week out to win every single game and "make a run". This is how a team truly rebuilds and becomes a winner. Like Winston pointed out, confidence goes a long way towards turning a talented team into a winning team. If the Jets go 4-12, then they will have actually taken a step backwards, not forwards. How many other teams in the NFL have been rebuilding for as long as we can remember and still suck? The Detroit Lions and Cleveland Browns come to mind immediately. No matter how good of a job our FO does, it doesn't translate into a Super Bowl unless the Jets go out there and try to take it at every possible moment. Look what happened to the Bengals, they were miserable for years and years because they were always trying to rebuild, but then they got a coach (and a QB, yes) in there who was more concerned with winning games than "making progress", and now they are contenders.
Here is exactly what I'd be doing if I were head coach of the NY Jets and making a run for the SB this year: 1) Visit a damned good psychiatrist. 2) Gouge my eyes out and puncture my eardrums, so I don't have to pay attention to the press. 3) Start Clemens. Give Chad a dozen towels for use on the sidelines. 4) Go get the best pass-rusher I could find and give up whatever I need to give away to do this. 5) Trade away Jolley, McCareins, Barlow (that's right, Barlow) and however many future draft picks I have left (after #4) to get me a legitimate, proven, play-making RB. That includes going after Lamont Jordan. 6) Go out to my garage and tape up all the windows and doors. Park the SUV in there and leave a note in the glove box, in case 3-5 don't work.
I hope I didn't come across as implying that the Jets don't want to win. All this talk about "tanking" and intentionally throwing games is always just fan talk and nothing more. In many cases it's wishful thinking on the part of some fans after they know their season is shot anyway (in the range of 3-10), etc. No, I'm not saying this. Certainly management and coaches don't let this kind of thinking even get started in their own minds, ever, much less within the organization. But there is a rebuilding going on here, that can't be denied. The Jets are going to strive to win as many games as they can, of course. But I also think they know it's going to take some rebuilding to be legitimate contenders.
If we can run the ball effectively and stop the run, this team has a slight chance at 9 wins. I don't think 9 wins is going to get it done. Here's my take on the schedule- We will MOST LIKELY: -Get one against Miami -Get one against Buffalo -Beat Detroit -Beat Green Bay -Beat Oakland -Beat Detroit -Beat Cleveland That's seven wins. We could: -Sweep Buffalo- It NEVER happens, but Loseman as the starter? If this staff actually gameplans to stop McGahee(unlike the previous staff) we can do it this year. -Beat Tennessee- Provided we can stop the run. Say what you want about this team, but all they have to do if we can't stop the run is play hold the fort defense and rape the clock. Beat Minnesota Take one from New England- Tom Brady is good, but it's going to be very difficult to be great throwing to Troy Brown and Reche Caldwell. Maybe we can steal one. It is entirely possible that we COULD be a playoff team, but I don't see more than one or two of those POSSIBLES happening. -X-
I keep waiting for there to be some kind of punchline to this thread.. We are gonna go as far as Pennington takes us this year. I agree about the D, they have potential to keep us in every game depending on how fast they pick up the new system.. That takes us back to Pennington & the O.. If he is truely healthy & I'm talking pre 04 healthy not 05 "healthy" than they might be good enough to average say 17-20 points per game which should keep us in most games.. Problem is based on preseason alone I have seen no evidence to suggest that Penny is capable of leading the O to that kind of production.. There just seem to be to many ??? to feel optimistic about this season but I do think the potential is there to be alot better than most people, including me think they will be..One thing I am sure of is Penny gives us the only chance at some success this season..
lol..maybe he is proving a point to posters that seem to be caught up in post counts..."yeah..because Winston posted this thread...nobody is killing him..if it was a newbie...you guys would be jumping all over him!". Mr. Winston seems to be backing up his claim...so I guess he truly believes it!!
Wow, you just voiced my opinion entirely. I barley even feel the need to post nowhmy: . Just out of curiosity, are we going to beat Detroit so badly it would count as defeating them twice?:lol:
Who do you C R bigger dregs then us in the AFC? I see Cinncy/Pitt/NE/MIA/Balt/Jax/Indy/Den to be all better then us with QBs who can get the job done. That is 8 of the 16 teams in the AFC. I see some of the dregs on the same level as us so the more I think of your supposition the farther away I find myself moving from your idea.
Were doomed and you are all SLW if you don't realize this. The Jets will never win an SB with a HC. Good post WB. I'm with you.
Sorry if reality taste bitter but you can thank Woody?herm/Dumbway for whatever transpires on the negative side of the ball for the next several years. I really do not understand why you take pot shots at me when like you all I am is a fan of the team. You can rest assure if I own the team like Leon did for 30 some odd years & Woody has for the last 6 I would be taking every possithe measure to have insured that the teams history was far better then it is at this moment. If you are angry why not direct it at the people who can change something not another fan who like you only wants them to be a winning team. You do realize at this time our OVERALL record from the inception of the Titans is still under .500 which I am sure you knows means we lost more games then we won. If you do not believe me go check it out yourself
