Because he preferred Fant, as simple as that, and still counted on Becton. If you remember Fant actually started at RT over Moses that year, but once Becton got hurt, he moved to the LT and had a solid year. So, he chose Fant and turned out to be dead wrong. Moses wanted to start, and there was no starting spot for him here after he lost out to Fant and Becton was coming back. He didn't sign for a lot in Baltimore, but had a starting spot. If JD offered starting spot, he would have stayed. He would have had to probably beat Ravens offer slightly, but Moses signed for very little, so it wouldn't be hard if he wanted him as a starter. Granted, JD was working with Saleh, who preferred Fant, but at the end of the day, handling this the way it was handled was a failure. Really, if you think about it, the only time we had a good OLine under JD was for a relatively short stretch when LDT came in and played well for GVT. Beyond that for the last 3 years there was always at least one glaring hole in the OLine, and it was overall poor. Right now is the absolute worst time to have this again, and yet here we are, less than a month before the season starts and even AR is complaining about it. And having shitty tackles is even worse than the interior. That's how QBs get hurt.
I wish that we could keep both of them and add in Gipson too. Unfortunately, the reality is that we won't be able to do that. All we hear and read is based on what other fans (who are prone to hyperbole) and the media have to say, and neither the media nor the fans know all the subtle nuances and fine details about any of their play on any given play. As fans, we also tend to get really impressed with "wow" catches and value them over steady, consistent play which doesn't stand out as much often times. Taylor probably knows AR's hand signals cold, Brownlee may not. Brownlee may have run several wrong routes, whereas I doubt that has happened with Taylor. Taylor made the huge catch in the HOF game and looked good otherwise. Brownlee had back-to-back catches, then dropped 2 passes that hit him in the hands or chest. Taylor gets open, Brownlee not so much. Taylor is a seasoned vet he has several years experience with both Hackett and Rodgers and has chemistry with Rodgers. We know that QBs have WRs that they trust and have complete confidence in and they tend to stick with them, and that coaches, especially in a season where they're aiming for the playoffs, tend to trust veterans more than they do rookies. Heck, just look at comments here. Many posters are saying that certain players or position groups are weak or not good because they have unproven, young players, so even many fans tend to lean towards proven players over young players with perhaps higher ceilings. Practices will count in the final decision, but preseason games will count more. So far, Taylor has looked really good in a preseason game, Brownlee not so much. Hopefully that will change tonight and Brownlee will have a big game. I'm hoping that Gipson will as well. I'm torn between those two. I love Brownlee's height, "wow" catches, and ability with contested catches, but I also love Gipson's speed and elusiveness and his ability as a PR. IMO it's huge to have a PR who gives opposing STs Coordinators nightmares, and who can score from anywhere on the field or at least flip field position in a tight game, which can mean the difference between winning and losing. Hardman gives us that, but I've read that the Jets plan to make Hardman a big part of their offense. If that's ture, then they may not want to risk his getting injured returning punts. AFAIK Cobb is the only other player on the team who has ever returned punts, period, much less in the NFL, but Cobb hasn't done it much in years, and I doubt at his age and being perhaps more injury prone, that the Jets will want to risk losing him to injury returning punts, when he is so consistent and successful on converting 3rd down receptions into 1st downs. In reality, neither Brownlee nor Taylor may make the team. Due to tight battles at other roster spots, the Jets may decide to keep only 5 WRs. I have a hard time believing that they would do that, and especially lose what looks like some very talented young receivers, but it could happen. It's also possible that neither makes the team because Gipson makes it as the PR and slot WR. He has blazing speed and elusivness, and we all know that the Jets love speed. I"m going to trust the CS on this one.
To your point, things get a lot tougher when you have a deep roster at many positions for a change. Aside from the final 53 we can protect 3 more week to week in the practice squad. It will be a tough choice to protect WR vs TE and other key players. In addition, OL woe's will probable force JD to stack the position.
Good point. We still needed depth, however, and he could have let Fant and Moses compete for the starting job. As you said, it probably wouldn't have cost much to keep Moses. I don't think it's a bad thing that JD went with Saleh's preference, if that's what happened. HCs need to feel like the GM has their back and that relationship is crucial. If that relationship grows strained, it has a definite negative effect on the whole organization. We've seen it happen. In that scenario, the blame should go on Saleh, not JD. JD was just doing what good, smart GMs do, supporting his HC and allowing him to keep the players he wanted. We've also seen what happens when a GM forces a player on a HC that a HC doesn't want. That player languishes on the bench and never gets a chance. That was also two years ago, and there was no reason for JD not to still count on Becton at that point. NFL GMs don't just give up on players, especially ones with elite ability and potential because they suffer an injury. JD cannot help injuries. Aside from GVR, I think that every FA OL JD has signed that made the roster was thought to be at least an average player and ascending, and even GVR may have been. After that, it's on the CS to get the players to play at a high level and consistently. We're frustrated and impatient because things haven't worked out, but much of it has been beyond JD's control. He still has the cap to think about. Some OL who were available in FA wanted way too much money or didn't want to sign with the Jets, or weren't scheme fits. Others re-signed with their previous team or signed elsewhere for big contracts. There have also been FA classes that didn't have much to offer in terms of OL who would have been scheme fits. It's easy for us to sit back and criticize like we could do a better job, but the reality is that I doubt that any one of us could come even close to doing half the job that JD has done especially when one considers the circumstances surrounding the Jets. AR got frustrated after the practice with Carolina. It's not like he has gone on Twitter or given interviews and groused about the OL, so let's not get carried away with hyperbole.
Agreed on Brown, and to me it comes down to Becton. If he can play, he may just save our asses. It just feels odd saying this about a guy who missed last 2 years with injury and anything we could have gotten from his this year should have been a bonus. Instead the whole season may as well ride on Becton's bum knee. It's the same bullshit that JD did last year. What's really different? Replace injury prone Fant with injury prone Billy, who gets beat like a drum every time to the point where it's almost like a comedy reading the tweets about it and pretty much it's the same exact situation. We need Becton to get to 100% in a month and start at LT for nearly entire year or I am afraid this is not going to end well.
Agreed Moses situation had to do with coaching, but JD hired the coaches, so at the end of the day, if we have a good OLIne, it's JD's achievement and if not it's a failure. So far over the last 3 years and with how this offseason is looking so far, I would say overall he failed when it comes to the OLine. Particularly last year, when (along with MILF) I think it greatly contributed to Zach's demise. Not saying Zach would have been a star without these factors, but you could see how he was taking off too soon not having any trust in OLine, and he was right, just ask Mike White. Anyway, on AR's comments, this is not the first time he said that. I heard this before. He said something about interior being OK, but edges not there yet, something of that sort. AR has told the truth, and that is that out tackles stink. He was referring to Max and Billy who got all the snaps, and who should not be getting any in regular season. I mean Max shit the bed against 3d string Brown's line in preseason. This is just not the type of protection that AR should have.
Yes, we can protect 3 on the PS, but they have to clear waivers first (unless they're a vested veteran) before they can be on the PS. That's where the problem lies. As you said, however, once they're on the PS, JD is probably going to have some tough decisions on whom to protect, although there may be 1-2 players whose potential is a lot higher than the others and who have impressed JD and the CS more, so the decision on them will be easy. In terms of stacking the OL, I don't think he will, as I don't think he can. For one thing, he would lose too many good young players. For another, what's the point in keeping mediocre OL who will be no better, and quite likely much worse thanour starters? IMO that's the beauty of the OL that JD has assembled. AVT can play both OT and both OG spots at a high level. Turner can play both OT and both OG spots. Hopefully, he won't have to play at all, but in a pinch he knows the scheme and can play. Schweitzer can play OG and C. Colon can play both OG and C, and he probably can make it to the PS. McGovern can play both C and OG, but should never see the field at OG. It would truly be doomsday if he has to play OG. Tippman is focusing on C, but probably could play OG in a pinch. Mitchell at least has some experience at both OT positions, but at this point shouldn't play LT, as his playing RT will be questionable as it is. Warren, like Brown, I think only plays LT, but I may be mistaken and he may be able to play RT. I truly don't think that the Jets will keep more than 9 OL and that unless we sign a camp cut or swing a trade for a player, those 9 will be: Brown, Becton, AVT, Tomlinson, Tippman, Schweitzer, McGovern, Warren, and Colon. That said, they may only keep 8 on the roster and will keep 2-3 on the PS: Colon, maybe Laing as they're supposedly high on him, maybe Pankey, and maybe Senat or Hermanns on the PS. IMO If they want to keep 5 RBs with Bawden, 4 TEs with either Yeboah or Kuntz, and 6 WRs, they will have to go with only 8-9 OL unless they shortchange the DL or Secondary, which I don't think would happen.
I'm not going to panic. We still have a month or more. With the Jets planning on trading for Rodgers, JD's hands were tied in FA. There was no way that he could sign a big ticket OT in FA because then he may not be able to create enough cap space to fit Rodgers under the cap without cutting players.. 4 of the top 5 OTs were gone before the Jets pick and would have been even if they hadn't swapped 1st rounders with GB. The Jets obviously thought that Jahmyr Gibbs and McDonald were superior prospects to Broderick Jones. Their philosophy, which overall is the best philosophy, is to not draft from need unless it matches value. In this particular situation, however, it's fair to say that it was a mistake to follow that guideline rather than ensuring that the OT position had better depth and quality. That's why I think that any principle or plan for how one drafts should only be a guideline, and not a hard and fast rule. I thought that they needed an OT in the draft, and I would have been quite happy had they taken Jones. After the Steelers traded up and took Jones, there wasn't another OT rated anywhere near that spot in the draft, so they took the highest-rated player left on their board in McDonald. At that point, I think that's about all that they could do. The thing is however, that even if they had planned to take which ever of the top 5 OTs who was still there at their pick, unless they didn't trade for Rodgers, they wouldn't have gotten Jones. Anton Harrison was the next OT taken in the draft at pick #27 by the Jaguars. If memory serves me correctly, he is talented and would have been a scheme fit, but I think had some big question marks about him. I googled him and he's going to be the Jaguars starting RT, so he must be doing pretty well. It's said that he has a lot to learn but is learning and working hard. Could the Jets have traded down and taken him? Possibly, but unless the Jaguars coveted McDonald or maybe Smith-Njigba, I'm not sure that they or any other team would have traded up. So imo, there really wasn't much of anything different or better that JD could have done to improve the OT position this year in FA and the draft, but if you know of some other good OT that would have been a scheme fit and who signed cheaply with another team or if you know of another OT who was drafted after the Jets took McDonald who is looking really good in his TC, please share it with me. Carter Warren is said to have 1st round talent, and the Jets got him for a steal in the 4th round. He could be a starter next season. Sometimes luck plays a part and NFL GMs just have to play the hand they're dealt.
I'm on record as saying that I think JD made a big mistake in hiring Saleh rather than Brian Daboll. Saleh has done a lot of good things and he's likeable, but almost ruining Zach and other decisions he has made have hurt the team equally badly. So I agree that since JD hired Saleh, he has to take at least part of the blame for the OL. I'm not ready to say that he failed for this season yet, but may before the season is over. Maybe I'm delusional, but I really think that Becton is going to be one of our starters (or at least should be) and is going to play at a high level. It remains to be seen what Saleh will do, however. He may not give Becton the chance. His mind may already be made up that Brown will start at LT regardless if whether he has practiced at all with the rest of the OL and that Mitchell will start at RT. If so, and the season goes to hell because of that, then Saleh must go imo. Since JD has done such a very good job in building the rest of the roster and in handling the cap, I think that he should get the chance to hire another HC, and possibly draft another QB if things don't work out with Zach. That will be his last chance, however, if the next HC and/or QB don't work out, regardless of the job he has done otherwise. Those comments were made on the day of that practice and are relatively minor. He wasn't really complaining so much as just stating a fact. He wasn't upset, he was positive and hopeful.
Without question, I think that this is the best article that Rich Cimini has ever written> Rich Cimini, ESPN Staff Writer Aug 10, 2023, 06:00 AM ET FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The New York Jets' training facility is 224,000 square feet. Quarterback Aaron Rodgers, in 108 days since his ballyhooed arrival, has made his presence felt in every corner of the building. The locker room. The weight room. The cafeteria. The classroom. The team's most accomplished player since Brett Favre in 2008, Rodgers has captivated the organization with ... well, being himself. The newness hasn't worn off, and everything the 39-year-old quarterback does -- from reading defenses to reciting old-school hip-hop lyrics -- leaves an impression. Even the seemingly mundane moments get amplified and talked about among the players. "In the locker room, we talk about it: It's like watching Kobe [Bryant] or Michael Jordan work in football," defensive tackle Solomon Thomas said. "The details he puts in, how he commands the offense, it's insane watching him play." Here's an Aaron Rodgers photo album, if you will, with behind-the-scenes snapshots from OTAs until now: Rodgers likes things a certain way, and he believes part of his job with the Jets is making sure his teammates know that way. One day, he explained to center Connor McGovern a pass-protection adjustment he likes to call against a certain blitz. It came with a demonstration. Making like an offensive lineman, Rodgers got down in a pass set and executed the footwork for the play. His technique was flawless, according to McGovern, who was blown away. "I've never seen a quarterback do an offensive lineman's footwork," McGovern said. "He knows it down to that detail -- not only what we're going to do, but what our technique should look like. Perfect steps. Wow, that's crazy." Rodgers doesn't hang with the same group of players in the cafeteria. He's always on the move, making sure he sits with different teammates at each meal. It could be the wide receivers at breakfast, the rookies at lunch -- that sort of rotation. Players have heard him turn down invitations, saying he needed to spend time with another group. His goal is to build relationships. "That's huge, especially from a [future] Hall of Fame guy," tight end Tyler Conklin said. "That goes a long way for a lot of people." Linebacker Quincy Williams was working out in the weight room when he heard Rodgers talking about hip-hop. "He's like, 'Play this, play that,'" Williams said, smiling. "I'm like, 'How do you know that song?'" Williams said it's "surprising" that Rodgers knows so much about hip-hop. "Yeah, I am [a hip-hop fan] -- '90s, though," said Rodgers, mentioning Tupac Shakur, Warren G, Notorious B.I.G., Mase and Snoop Dogg. And the Chico, California, native unsurprisingly said he prefers "the West Coast guys." On the first day of training camp, Rodgers was barking signals when he noticed a safety creeping toward the line of scrimmage for a possible blitz. He had fun with it, calling out the safety and daring him to come. So much for that disguise by the defense. It has been a long time since the Jets had a quarterback with that kind of chutzpah. Coach Robert Saleh said he loves the way Rodgers "messes with the defense. ... It makes me laugh. He's a coach that can still play football." Defensive end Carl Lawson is a craftsman when it comes to rushing the passer. He's always studying tape, looking to create countermoves for his repertoire. He hatches a plan and takes it to the practice field for testing, except it has been tough this summer. Because Rodgers delivers the ball so fast. "Sometimes I'm not even getting out of my stance," Lawson said. "It's like, 'Whoosh! Did the play happen already?'" In his fourth MVP season, 2021, Rodgers averaged 2.63 seconds from snap to pass, the fourth-quickest release time in the league, according to ESPN Stats & Information data. Fellow defensive end John Franklin-Myers also has found facing Rodgers frustrating at times. The defense has to change its signals because he deciphers them so quickly and calls out the plays. One day, Rodgers was so successful in anticipating line stunts that Franklin-Myers had to ask his secret. Foot placement, Rodgers explained. He noticed how the defensive linemen were shifting their feet before the snap. "It keeps us honest," Franklin-Myers said. Rodgers usually is all business in the classroom. He's so intense that he sometimes calls on teammates, asking them to explain specifics about certain plays. Players have said it keeps them on their toes; they don't want to disappoint their quarterback. But sometimes learning can be fun. Passing-game coordinator Todd Downing, with help from instructional designer John Vieira, uses "Jeopardy!" style questions to test the quarterbacks on various facets of the offense. That's in Rodgers' wheelhouse. He's a "Jeopardy!" fan who has guest hosted the show, which he describes as a life highlight. He also has won playing "Celebrity Jeopardy!" In Downing's classroom version of the quiz show, he uses pictures of Rodgers on the big screen. "Some of these kids haven't seen any of the 'Celebrity Jeopardy!' stuff," Rodgers said, grinning. "We're making references about [former host] Alex Trebek and Sean Connery [from "Saturday Night Live" spoofs of "Celebrity Jeopardy!"], and they have no idea who even Sean Connery is. So it's a great learning experience, some of the pop culture for the young guys." Rodgers is like a point guard in transition. When he sees a vulnerability in the defense, he adjusts on the fly and fires a quick pass, sometimes a no-look. He expects his receivers to see the game as he does and be ready for the ball. In a recent practice, Rodgers changed the play at the line when he noticed safety Ashtyn Davis lining up as a linebacker, creating an eight-man box. Rodgers communicated the audible with the help of hand signals, took a quick drop and fired a 7-yard slant to wide receiver Mecole Hardman Jr., who slipped a tackle and blew past the safety for a 79-yard touchdown. "Aaron is a tricky guy when it comes to certain things ... tricky as in, he'll throw it when you think he's not throwing it, especially the no-looks," Hardman said. The Jets hold evening walk-throughs. The players are hot and tired after long days, so it's easy for minds to wander. They'd rather be in an air-conditioned hotel room than a deserted practice field. This setting, players say, is where Rodgers is the most focused. Few things irk him more than wasted reps in a walk-through, so he tries to keep everyone on edge. Sometimes he will deviate from the script by calling a play they ran two months ago in OTAs, testing their attentiveness and recall. "The best players are the smartest players," Rodgers said. "So anytime we're on that field, whether it's a half-line walk-through or a full 11-on-11 play, they should be playing with their brains turned on." Middle linebacker C.J. Mosley is like Rodgers in that he values the walk-throughs. "The best part of camp," Mosley said. He likes them because there's a heavy emphasis on the cerebral aspect to the game, so they invariably turn into chess matches. Rodgers makes the pre-snap checks for the offense; Mosley makes them for the defense. One evening, Mosley recognized the offensive formation and called out the play. Rodgers looked directly at him. "What did you say?" an incredulous Rodgers asked from across the line of scrimmage. Mosley thought he had one-upped the 19-year veteran -- until Rodgers changed the play at the last second. Mosley, marveling at Rodgers' savvy, thought to himself, "That's different right there." Looking back, Mosley called that cat-and-mouse instance "one of the coolest things I've seen so far" in training camp. Another seemingly mundane moment that seems bigger with Rodgers at quarterback.
They showed on the Jets insider show how JD knew Pitts would get Jones, and how he had two available guys rated higher than Jones anyway. This explains why he did a pick swap with GB when he could have waited for them to fold: he estimated it likely would not impact the Jets much - and later Saleh confirmed that swap actually didn't impact the board. The point is that JD seemed extremely plugged in, and if he wanted Jones there were ways of making it happen. He just had other players rated higher. It remains to be seen if he made a mistake or not. I like McD, but if the season fails because we can't protect AR, it will be the end of JD. Especially if Jones becomes a solid tackle this year, while we have Max and/or Billy starting, who suck.
Like I said, I heard him mention that multiple times, including before the joint practice. Of course he won't shit all over his tackles, but read between the lines. AR is concerned. I hope that results into some sort of action, although at this stage, I am not sure if anything can be done aside from getting on your knees and praying Becton and AVT can play tackle for 17 games this season. That means we lose advantage AVT had at guard, but beggars can't be choosers. Becton hasn't been able to do it in two years, and AVT got a season ending injury on a bend a few games after he was switched to tackle. We really need lady luck here on our side after the unfavorable position we were put in at the tackle spot.
Yes, I know all of that. IMO what it boils down to is whether it was a mistake to go with higher rated players at another position and "hope" that Brown, Becton and Mitchell would all be good, or accepting that things were very "iffy" at OT, and either doing what was necessary to get Jones or trading down and taking Harrison. I don't think it will be the end of JD. He put us in the position to get Rodgers and has built this young, deep, strong team. If not for JD, we wouldn't have Rodgers and wouldn't be in this position. We'd have no hope for a winning season or the playoffs.
I am not sure if people give JD enough credit for getting AR. This was a true masterpiece of GMing. Starting with firing MILF, getting Hack, convincing AR, making a deal with GB, then having Aaron take unprecedented pay cut, then seeing how motivated AR is. JD hit it out of the park. With all that however, if Billy Turner or Max ends up starting, gets beat, and AR get's hurt, that masterpiece will be worth shit.
That’s interesting, you can protect 3 on the PS now? Didn’t know that, but glad to hear it. So they get a regular contract or the reduced PS salary in that event? Could see the rookie TE, UDFA Wrs, or maybe a CB or the LB that Saleh likes all being good candidates for that. Gives us a way to redshirt them. Having to stack the OL with mediocre options sucks I agree that may happen.
Yes indeed, once they clear waivers, unless you are a vested vet, you can protect 3 total each week.The total of 3 can include vets, as I understand it.
Ok so still run the risk of clearing waivers tho. I’m worried about losing some guys at deep positions who could probably use a redshirt year. Tough decisions ahead.
Good call. I've been thinking about Rodgers (health) and the OL lately. Honestly I think if he's going to get buckled like Mike White last year and ruin the whole season its almost 100% going to be due to a freak situation. Like getting struck by lightning. If its going to happen it'll just happen. I suspect chances are low that it will be due to poor OL play in general. If that is indeed what the Jets end up getting then Rodgers will just adjust his game as needed and deal with it. I thought Becton looked pretty good today watching the game. I tried to focus on him as much as I could. Seemed to be moving well and may have had a little oopsie or two but at this point who cares (at least too much) about that. He bulldozed a few guys, moved a few piles, seemed energetic etc.
