One season defines a career? How can you be certain he would have gotten hurt here? I don't think he's missed a game due to injury til this year...sounds like a fluke.
Year Rk Team G Pts/G TotPts Scrm Plys Yds/G Yds/P 1st/G 3rd Md 3rd Att 3rd Pct 4th Md 4th Att 4th Pct Pen Pen Yds ToP/G FUM Lost TO 2007 12 ARZ 16 25.2 404 1,016 344.1 5.4 19.2 75 203 37 12 14 86 137 1,128 30:40 27 12 -7 2007 26 NYJ 16 16.8 268 1,011 294.7 4.7 17.9 85 226 38 10 21 48 63 486 29:07 20 6 -4 2008 4 ARZ 16 26.7 427 998 365.8 5.9 20.5 83 198 42 8 16 50 107 781 30:11 27 15 0 2008 16 NYJ 16 25.3 405 981 331.7 5.4 19.2 81 197 41 9 16 56 77 569 31:06 22 8 -1 It's clear who the better OC is and it is not Schottenheimer. Has Todd Haley as an OC and playcaller had anyone else as his QB than Warner? Has Kurt Warner accomplished anything without Martz or Haley? Has Todd Haley even been OC anywhere else than in Arizona?
The Schotty Haters crack me up. Constantly entertaining. "Let's hire someone the Kansas City Chiefs just fired!" It never ends.
I don't care one way or another, to be completely honest with you.. But come on, you know that playing OC and HC are two completely different jobs, and people has made the Wade Philips argument more than once. In my opinion, though, I don't know enough about the guy to even make a judgement on the matter.
Are you seriously going to try and pretend that's an apples to apples comparison? At the very least take a look at the personnel of both teams and the schedules. And FTR, the 2011 Jets currently have the same PPG as the '07 Cards with a third year QB instead of 2 time all-pro, 2 time league MVP, superbowl MVP Kurt Warner, and no Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin.
Of course I recognize that the job duties of the OC and HC are different, but not entirely so. In some areas they overlap. Haley quite obviously was canned in large measure because he could not control himself in game situations. When was the last time you saw an HC get a 15 yard penalty called on him?
If is about personel, then why wasn't the Arizona Cardinals and their offense running rampant over te league from 2005 onwards when Warner, Fitzgerald and Boldin were there? I'll ask again. How well did Warner fare from on 2002-2006? The only season he has done anything without Martz or Haley was in 2009, his final season. It is a very valid argument that Todd Haley was the one who salvaged Warner's career. But we do have a superbowl MVP, two WRs who both made the winning catch in consecutive Superbowls, a far better defense and we have a running game. The QB and WRs were superb in those teams but don't say we have some kind of slapdick team. And like I said, if those players were so great, why did it take Todd Haley to be OC to get everything out of them?
First, Warner played about half the time from 05-06 in AZ as they were trying to work Leinart in, but what does another offensive coordinator mishandling talent have to do with anything? If you think Holmes and Burress compare to Fitzgerald and Boldin then there's no point in having this conversation. Again, the '11 Jets are averaging the same PPG with much less to work with on offense than the '07 cards that you are putting on a pedestal. BTW, that great '11 Jets running game is 30th in the league in YPC.
hell no! of course, another oc would be good , a new a directon ,etc. , not acceptable that Burress had just one catch last game. besides holmes needs to get ball more, remember his Superbowl catch vs az
Leinart was drafted in '06 so he wasn't around in '05. In '05 Warner played so well he was benched by Luke fucking McCown. Again in '06 Warner was named the starter but had to be replaced by Leinart because he struggled. So Warner played only half the time, because he flat out sucked, even though he had talent around him. Again, what did Warner do after 2002 when he broke his finger until he had Haley? And BTW, Matt Leinart wouldn't have even been drafted by the Cards if they thought Warner still had something left in the tank. Fitzgerald over Burress is a no brainer, but then Holmes vs Boldin, I don't know, pretty even. But then again, Greene & Tomlinson > James & Shipp and the at TE Keller > Pope. I'm not putting the '07 Cardinals on any pedestals, you're the one comparing them to the '11 Jets. Frankly, I was most impressed in '08 of the Cardinals and how that offense worked.
Had my timeline messed up, thanks. I still don't understand what other offensive coordinators mismanaging talent has to do with anything? Are you saying that Warner isn't anything special and he's a product of Martz and Haley? OK Warner > Sanchez Fitz > Holmes Boldin > Burress You're right on the TE and the RB's, but I don't think our RB's are anything special. They're slightly better than the average crap they had. You put up the stats of the '07 and '08 cards vs the '07 and '08 Jets and said that showed haley is clearly a better OC.
Mentioning Fitzgerald and Boldin is only part of the picture, the third wideout in one of the best trios at that position being a name very recently in the world of the Jets, that being Steve Breaston. Breaston was a rookie in 07, and only had 8 catches. His sophomore season was a very different picture, during which he started nine games, had 77 receptions and 1,006 yards for a 13.1 average. Hey, I have a lot of respect for Holmes and Burress, but to compare them and adding Kerley and Turner to three wideouts in Arizona who all had plus 1,000 seasons in one year (2008) is, quite simply, ridiculous.
Jets offense is coming around If they finish strong, don't rule out Schotty getting a HC job NFL or college They just extended his contract, so that is the only way he will leave That would be the best end to this situation BTW, Todd Haley would love to be OC of the Jets, but I hope, if there is an opening, they go in a different direction
To be quite honest, I don't know. I think, for what he has done in the league qualifies him in the HoF. His time in St. Louis, taking them to two Superbowls and being named league MVP and Superbowl MVP, was tremendous. I just find it mystifying that after that he played poorly every where he went until 07 in Arizona. I'm not saying that he is a complete bum, but obviously playing under Martz and Haley he has performed amazingly, otherwise he has come flat. It was you who first started the comparison with the '07 Cards and the '11 Jets. I just posted the stats from the years when Schotty and Haley were both OCs in this league, so one could make a fair reasonable comaprison of the two. And actually in '07, Warner was not the day one starter as Leinart got it. He had a season ending injury in week 5, so Warner only had 11 starts.
Warner is really a strange story. He couldn't even stick to an NFL practice squad, so he played in the arena league, then got signed to the Rams as an afterthought practice guy and magically turned into a superbowl MVP. I don't know what to think of him either, but I do think it's fair to say he had a great deal of talent for an NFL QB. I don't think it's fair or reasonable to compare the offensive success of those rosters. I brought up this years team because I thought you were suggesting those Cards teams had really good offenses, and I agree. The thing is, we've put up exactly the same amount of points per game as the '07 team this year with less to work with and everyone wants our OC gone.
