Plain and simple... there are only a handfull of positions that deserve high first round picks in most situations. These positions are the hardest to fill with talented and successfull players, and they are the most criticle to building a successfull team. They are: 1. Quarterback. 2. Left Tackle (or RT if your QB is lefty) 3. DT/NT (depends on your scheme) Skill position players are a dime a dozen, and they are much easier to find through FA. I'd much rather get a FA WR or RB than try to find my starting LT that way. And skill players can be made to look much better when there is solid players up front.
You cant just pool all 1st rounders, as a #4 is not the same value as a #32 (where Mankins was selected). I dont think any of the folks here have issue with getting an o-liner at our #29 (for Mankins). Redo your list with o-liners getting picked in top 5 (or even ten, just to see), I would be curious to see but likely it will tell a very different story. I hated the picks, but have moved on as we cant do anything now - All I know is this Ferguson kid just better be the next Walter Jones or Ogden, since we may have passed on a franchise QB for him.
That's a weak argument Tee. Tackles often get picked in the top five. It's guards and centers that aren't often picked early. Almost every year for the pasted decade a tackle was taken in the top 5. 1996 - Johnathan Ogden 4th 1997 - Orlando Pace 1st 2000 - Chris Samuels 3rd 2001 - Leonard Davis 2nd 2002 - Mike Williams 4th 2004 - Robert Gallery 2nd 2006 - D'Brickshaw Ferguson
Dude your list proves our point. The last 3 picks in the top 5 were big-time busts. The last time it worked out was 2000! I would not even put Samuels in th upper echelon (Ogden/Pace/Jones/etc). D. Brick will be worth it if we can do what no other team has done since 1997 (Pace). If he is the next Pace, we will be going out for some brewskies however.
Sorry, I would also like to see your list again from the top franchises (Chiefs/Pats/Steelers) picking o-line in the top 5 (and if that does not look good in the top 10), if its too much work thats cool - just curious.
Dude, do you realize that ALL positions have big time busts in the first round? Tackles have less of a pool of history to work from, but you can find tons of QB busts, WR busts, RB busts, TE busts, etc etc etc.
I understand that but as you said every position has bust potential, but wouldn't you rather hit it big on a franchise QB vs a franchise OT? Elway/Palmer/Manning/etc or Ogden/Pace? I would go for the franchise QB because he is the leader (not the OT). Just my opinion.
Damn, there is no way to please everyone but this is getting a little out of hand. It's completely subjective to believe that you can't use a high pick on a player just b/c he is an O-lineman. The fact is that the QB is the most important position in sports, so the positions that most closely tie into the QB spot, LT and RDE, are also extremely important. That is the premise behind why players like Mario Williams and Julius Peppers go so high. It baffles me why some people are so on board with getting a player that disrupts the passer but then are so against getting a player early that protects the passer. They are equal in importance, even if your bias leads you to believe differently. Using the #4 on a player who can potentially protect the blindside for years to come sounds like a great move to me. No one has dominated like Dbrick has on the college level, and as long as he keeps working hard (and it seems he will) he shouldn't have any troubles becoming a premier left tackle in the NFL. And for those trying to use previous drafts to prove that tackles early are/aren't worth it, what position can you name that you can draft early and get a surefire Pro-bowler. I wish drafting a qb or rb that early meant we had a probowl player for years to come, but you never know what's going to happen with any player/any position. Dbrick was the best player at our draft position, stop being so narrow minded about whom we got and just hope that he realizes his full potential, something I think we can all hope does happen.
Well to be fair about your earlier post, how many times during those years did NE or Pitt have a top 5 pick? Who knows what they would have done if they had one. There have been OTs (LTs specifically) taken that high and are producing very well in the NFL now, this is nothing new. You can thank the old regime for letting McKenzie and Thomas go. They also tried that build through FA and later rounds, and that didn't turn out too well for us. There was no one on the depth chart capable of coming an producing last year, they were all long term projects. Because Bradway/Herm left the line in such mess, the new FO had to take immediate action that the Jets could immediately reap the benefits from. At least IMO, I don't see what choice they had.
Ironic that the 2 tackles you named won superbowls while manning and palmer did not. Having an elite qb is something every franchise covets, but you can win championships without one.
Elway/Palmer/Manning were not available in this draft. I don't think Lienart is going to be an elite QB. I think he is a system QB who will be good in the right system. Young might turn out to be that good, but he is not nearly as ready as the other 3 were to be playing in the nfl. Elway, Palmer, and Manning all have one thing in common... they all have great arms. Leinart doesn't.
I will give you that one - good point. I agree Leinart did not look as good as Elway/Palmer/Manning. Just hope Clemens is a good pick-up, because Pennington is in his last days.
I don't know how you can call Gallery, or Williams busts. It is a little too early yet. Boselli could also be included in that draft list. I would put Samuels/Bosselli in the same category, while not "elite" certainly above average. The only player on that list that is a complete bust is Leonard Davis.
Its funny you left our Elway - who by the chance won a few SBs. And your point about Palmer and Manning in misplaced - they are on some of the best teams in the NFL, alot due to their production. You cannit win a SB on your own. Also Palmer/Manning are now in their prime, so their run to the Super Bowl is over the next couple of years.
Wasn't Williams let go - or there was rumblings of that. Gallery has seriously dissappointed - has been moved out of his original position because he was getting overpowered. But agree, lets see in 2-3 more years, but so far looks like not a great pick.
Too each his own, I don't want to get off track here. What would have been the perfect scenario for you in last weeks draft (besides getting bush). I saw no better alternative at no.4 then Dbrickashaw, so please show me how the jets could have done better.
This is all after the fact, but my ideal would of been to trade down (if that was even possible?), to pick up either Leinart or Cutler (at 7/8/9/10 lets say, and get extra 2nd rounder). Mangold at 29 is fine, then pick up Justice/McNeil at 35, and a RB/DE/OLB/CB with the other 2nd we picked up from the trade down. I would of loved to of seen us try to pick-up a potential pass-rusher either a OLB or DE (ie. Abraham replacement) in the 2nd round (but not sure if any good ones were left then anyhow). This is all conjecture anyhow and I am pretty much over it, so really doesn't matter anyway. Keeping my fingers crossed that Mangold is the next Mawae for 10+ years (sweet), Ferguson is the next W. Jones, and Clemens can be a legit QB in this league.
