Regarding the high efficiency situations+ low attempts. I agree that this situation does not necessarily lead to high efficiency rating. I did say this" I would say he maximizes opportunities in the red zone and is very good at not turning the ball over." He maximizes his opportunities. He has low attempts in high efficiency settings and weaker QB's would settle for FG or be even worse and turn it over. I am giving him credit, he capitalized on the opportunities presented to him, I am just saying that his opportunities were different because of the low amount of them, and the high amount in the RZ. This is no to discredit Tebow, but to explain why I would need to see more of an all around game from him to consider him an above average starting QB. Fumbles recovered is not a turnover like you said, but putting the ball on the ground is negative. I know you went off the NFL stats, I am just saying I think in 2010 Sanchez had an abnormally high recovered fumble rate and this year he had a relatively low or normal one compared to the NFL. I wasn't saying pick and choose fumbles, I was just saying count all fumbles whether recovered by the offense or defense. I think that can be more telling, because it lets you know how a QB protects the ball in the pocket or on the run in the case of scramblers. I know you can only look at losses and paint a negative picture, but I was showing the losses to show that while the defense didn't play as good as they did during the wins, it wasn't as terrible as everyone makes it out to be. I was also using the slide as examples of when the offense stalled and Tebow and the team didn't have any heroics to hide the fact that the offense was very inconsistent under him. Is that due to him, the playcalling ,or his teammates, obviously a combination of all of the above. But a lot of Tebow posters credit Tebow for all the success of his team, then you have to credit him with the failure too. I didn't watch the film of those 3 losses only the box scores, but whenever the Broncos did manage good drives, it seems like Tebow go into a groove passing. He is inconsistent though so there were a lot of 3 and outs that really hurt the team. The 3 and outs and inconsistent offense were hidden during the winning streak and not brought up because they were winning. In Miami in OT the broncos offesne goes 3 and out but the defense forces a fumble and the broncos settle for the game winning FG. Against the Jets, the offense was miserable all game with the defense holding the game close. In the Bears game, he had a nice late drive but he did leave his team in poor position for a 59 yd field goal. Obviously I'm picking from games I remember watching but the success hid the inconsistency and low powered offense. The same thing happened last year with fans and Sanchez but only to a small degree. At first everyone was ecstatic that Sanchez was clutch and making comebacks. Then everyone took a step back and realized the Jets were in a lot of these holes because of poor offensive play in the first quarter whether it be playcalling or execution. The were also in these holes due to the defense giving up late drives because the offense couldn't put games away. The winning masks the problems, especially if you are a fan, but you have to realize there are problems that were hidden because the team played well and was exciting. All of this doesn't mean that Tebow can't improve. Like I said, I think he can improve but his ceiling is not that high. I would love to be wrong since he is a great guy, but we will see. He currently is limited because I think he needs a lot around him currently to succeed. IF he can become a much better in the pocket passer and thrower , that would be huge. I just was listening to ESPN earlier and they had some analysts on talking about Cam Newton. They were saying Newton was playing the QB position like a butcher this year. Taking advantage of his athelticism and just forcing the team to scores. I see this as what Tebow is doing but with a little lesser success due to starting midseason and his talent. They were saying they talked to Newton and he wants to become a surgeon like a Manning or Brady. Newton has shown better passing ability then Tebow and right now he definitely looks like he can become a very skilled passer. As of right now, what I see from Tebow is that he has a much higher hill to climb if he wants to become a very skilled passer, especially in the pocket. If he does develop into one, you could see him having impact on games like Vick did two years ago. His in the pocket passing improved greatly, but teams always needed to spy on him also.
Well the reason why quarterback stats are typically so much by wins and losses, goes back to the original argument that, other than interception % or fumble % they are very much team stats. Touchdowns, completions, yards...all of those are team stats. The one category the quarterback has most control over is turnovers. Everything else is heavily impacted by the rest of the players. I know Newton's got better passing numbers but I don't know if Newton has shown better passing ability than Tebow, despite his better stats. After watching every game I assure you Cam Newton is incredibly inconsistent with his accuracy, more so than Tebow, has just as much of an issue as Tebow reading defenses, but is more prone to turnovers in bad situations and under pressure. When Newton misses, he misses bad and it's usually for a pick in your own half of the field or in the opponent's red zone. His passing statistics look a lot better but he benefited tremendously from an offense which was built around him, with the right personnel, with upper tier tight ends, elite receiver in Steve Smith and 2 elite running backs who can catch and were taught to do so. He had everything that Tim Tebow did not. He ran a similar offense in Carolina to what he did in college, and what Tebow did in college. And when Tebow was in that style offense he performed just as well as Newton in the passing department. He just hasn't had the chance to do it in the NFL because no team's done for Tebow what Carolina's done for Cam Newton. Carolina is one of the top 5 teams in the NFL in yards after catch. You'd be surprised to find out how many of Cam Newton's passes were high % completions, 2 yard passes behind the line of scrimmage to his running backs, tight ends, and Steve Smith. A lot of Tebow's passes were low % bombs down field. When he didn't have that open, he was forced to throw it out of bounds. It helps when you have an elite squad and elite receiver like Steve Smith. He's one of only 7 receivers in the NFL to win the triple crown in all 3 receiving categories in a single NFL season, btw. I've been watching the Panthers for a decade and I have never seen Steve Smith take so many passes out of the back field. He can do everything. He can also take bad, high, underthrown or overthrown passes and turn them into gold for his quarterbacks more so than probably 95% of the receiver in the NFL. He's very, very, underrated as an NFL receiver and had he not been stuck in Carolina, he'd be talked about just as much as Larry Fitzgerald, Johnson and Moss. He's probably my favorite NFL player. When you have a guy that can catch and go up for the ball like this: Or as flexible as this... (some of these are not catchable passes for most receivers) And do this: And running backs that gives you this kind of protection: This is what I'm talking about when I say Tebow didn't have what other quarterback have. Who on the Broncos team compare to that? Decker? Royal? Thomas? Yeah...it matters when you have someone like that catching your passes. Steve Smith made a career out of catching bad passes and making them look incredible. He'd probably be bored with Manning or Brady cause they wouldn't challenge him enough.
To counter that, the Panthers defense only held teams to under 15 3 times all season. He did not have the defense, or his defense did not even as a strong as a 5-6 game stand as Denver did . Some things from watching Newton vs Tebow pass. Newton seems more willing to take a hit when he is the pocket and deliver an on point throw. He also seems much more aware in the pocket. He looks around less and trusts his feel. At this time Newton can many more throws than Tebow and is better at leading his receiver across the field. Tebow and Newton are on par throwing to someone on a straight line. Newton keeps his head up much better as a passer. Tebow got better with this as the season went on. Newton and Tebow both aren't good at reading defenses, but Newton seems much quicker releasing the ball and making decisions. Tebow looks like a scrambler who is a passer. Newton looks more like a passer who can scramble. I see Newton as being much better at footwork and squaring up when throwing to someone. I see Tebow making throws more difficult than they should be by staying flat footed. As a runner Tebow handles the ball better and is more physical. Newton is more agile and has more likely hood of breaking the big, long play. Neither QB is smart on when to go out/slide and when to take hits (never). So passing wise I think Newton is better than Tebow at this point and has a higher ceiling.
I don't get all the Cam talk with Tebow. On of the more obvious facts in recent history to me is that Cam is awesome. There's no reason to subtract from him or Tebow in discussing the two. If I were talking about Drew Brees, I'd feel no need to bring up Aaron Rodgers. But for some reason Tebow fans want to bring up Cam, and vice versa. I guess it's their unique history with each other. But at some point, they move on.
