This is one of the most amazing threads I have seen in my short time on TGG. Capitalization, punctuation and paragraphs! And civil discourse about football. This must be the "Adult Section". I hope no one wakes me up
Eeryone knows I did not want patrick here but for a 6th rd. pick, you do it. I feel the same about ramsey and can only hope now that penny comes back and stays healthy. I want the best qb to win the spot come training camp because this team needs all the help it can get.
Welcome to the board, hopefully you'll see fit to stop by once in a while and post, because you appear to have a lot to offer in terms of knowledge and objectivity. I, too, see this situation as a win-win for both sides, and I think there is some sort of amicability between Tannenbaum and Snyder... I've felt for a while that it was MT that brokered the Coles/Moss deal, it was right around the time that Bradway was rumored to be away from the office for extended periods of time. The Skins could certainly use some depth and another draft pick. I certainly do not agree to Snyder's approach to the offseason, but if anyone is learning from his mistakes around the league, it's him. It also helps to have the best money men of any organization in any sports league managing your cap. Ramsey gives me mixed feelings, and you described him the way a few good friends of mine did. (who also unfortunately root for the Skins :wink: ) It's nice to hear a knowledgable Skins fan that feels Ramsey has untapped potential, and we have him for the trading price of a backup QB. The personality quirks give me pause because of the NY media's Jets-bashing obsession. I think he may get more of a chance than a lot of people here expect, and hopefully our new young coach can handle it properly enough to get some fair production out of him.
Hey, welcome to the forum. Though I can see why any fan would like or dislike any given team, what is it about the Pats that "piss you off"? :beer:
So this means at worst his durability will mean that he'll be a stoppage for our injured QBs so we won't have to go to Kliff Kingsbury in the near future.
Another Redskins fan here...with a very high opinion of Patrick Ramsey. In 2002, 2003 he won the starting job in competition with Spurrier's Florida boys, Weurfel and Matthews. In 2004 he won the starting job in competition with Joe Gibbs $7 million dollar per yr. QB, Mark Brunell. During those three years, Ramsey was 10 -13 as a starter. Over the same span the team was 8 - 17 in games he didn't start. He lost his starting position when Mark Brunell showed signs of life in the 2005 preseason while Ramsey was performing almost as badly as Ben Rothlesberger did that preseason (Ben kept his job). In a poll taken on one of our fansites, Redskins fans felt, by a two to one margin, that Patrick had not had a fair opportunity to prove his ability as an NFL quarterback. Your front office knows their stuff. Ramsey and Schaub are the only QBs out there with a real upside. They stole our best QB in my opinion. By the way, I think Miami shot themselves in the foot with Culpepper. Congratulations and good luck in the coming season.
NY is as tough a landing spot for Patrick as I could have imagined. If you draft your future QB this April, that should really ice it for the guy. I mean, in DC he had Brunell over his shoulder and then we draft Campbell as our future leader. Makes me wonder if your front office didn't tip their hand a bit. If they had given Rams any indication of Leinart et al, I feel pretty confident he would have shopped around for a more Kitna-like arrangement. He's a smart guy. I just can't see him walking into a a no-win situation. One of the great things about the NFL is how different philosophies play out. When Herm Edwards was cut loose for only a 4th round pick, I thought it spelled disaster for the Jets future. The Mangini/Shottenheimer regime didn't exactly inspire awe either. But the latest moves seem savvy to me, gutsy even, maybe even rash. Law had no future here, but Mawae -- that was right out of the ol' Patriot playbook. The Abraham chess game is telling a lot as well. And the draft -- well, that will either confirm of quash the notion that this team is in a major rebuild mode that could take years. In any event, you're not standing on your heels like the Raiders. NY calls for boldness, right or wrong. As an observer from afar, I'd say it was the Gints who are looking meek and mild while you guys are making moves and showing initiative. That's good to see, exciting, dynamic, reasons all why Dan Snyder is a great owner for a team. You guys know this from having the Yankees around. Shake the hive, stir things up, pour some sugar on me... Had to get some Leppard in there. Sorry. :beer:
I was a bit extreme, wasn't I? What I should have said, and really meant was: I am deeply impressed by what the Pats have done over the last 5 years under the Kraft/Polian/Billicheck regime. How can anybody not be impressed by the management of the franchise? It's become the model for the league. That said, I'm utterly depressed by the way players have become so utterly disposable -- replaceable part, really. Oh, I know, it's just a business, etc. But starting with Lawyer, players just got chopped, and continue to get chopped, with a horrific ruthlessness. The whole receiving corps made less than what we signed Randle El for. Players like Adam Vinitieri, who ought to retire in New England as a legend, now shops his wares to the Packers and will end up like Joe Montana on the Chiefs. I'm not arguing with the success. I'm not saying the philosophy isn't effective. I'm only saying... that's what makes me LOVE it when they/you/the Pats lose.
Thanks!!! It's always great talking football, especially with fans who have some objectivity on their team. Intelligent analysis is far more interesting than partisan rah rah. NY fans are so passionate, yet so open for debate -- I love that. Besides, how many Skins fans do you know with a Glenn Foley jersey? Yep, it's true. Got it for the wife. Now it's a "throwback" classic. I supplemented it with a Chrebet which she loves. Gotta love Chrebet. He'll never go out of style. BTW -- just an aside. Cooley is kinda our Wayne Chrebet, wouldn't you say? Maybe you guys can install an H-back and keep him around awhile. If anybody typifies Jet attitude and heart, it's him.
I agree. I think if the Jets were looking for strictly a backup, they would have made a stronger push for a Kitna or even Collins. Someone more proven. Jets got Ramsey because they see potential and think maybe he could be a starter in this league. I don't think they'll take a QB in round 1, but we'll see what happens.
Slobberknocker...I love this guy... Jeez O Pete, so nice to see an intelligent thread and great response posts here with a guy who clearly loves and cherishes the NFL and embraces the passion that engulfs all of us, no matter the team we root for, when the pigskin is in play. My Costas-ism aside...I think the Ramsey is a win all for everyone. You need the picks, and we can (and should) still draft a Qb, but it is not crucial that we do so in the first round anymore; you can take a Brodie Croyle, a Whitehurst, etc, in the third round, and fill more pressing needs in the first 36 picks, which we may, at the end of the JAbe situation have three of. D'Brick would be a solid choice, but, seeing how the FO seems to be bringing in the likes of Tom Ashworth and RT tackles, they may believe in Adrian Jones more than we think. So basically, we can draft anything we want there... linebacker, D end, trade out, etc. Question for you... I know Randle El was a good sign for you guys, but would you not have been better suited looking for a posession type reciever to compliment Moss? I know that Cooley bascially plays that sort of role, as the H back, but, dare I say, wouldn't Keyshawn be very good for that receiver corp. right now? Great job, please come back to the board more often, great to see intelligent conversation about the sport we all bleed.
Great question, and thanks for the welcome. That's exactly the reason I like hanging out here -- it's football we adore, after all. Now to the topic at hand: possession receiver. Simple two word answer: Al Saunders. The league is quick to forget that our biggest off-season acquisition is NOT a player at all. Adding Al Saunders to our staff ought to terrify opposing teams, at least if you're in the NFC (we'll wait and see how the rest pans out). Al was in St. Louis working under Martz during the Greatest Show on Turf. Then he went to KC who lead the league in yardage and overall offensive production for 5 solid years. Gibbs and Saunders both come from the same coaching tree, that of Don "Air" Coryell, a legend in offensive ingenuity from the Chargers days of lore. If Al could wrangle those types of numbers from a team (the Cheifs) with an aging QB, a versitile RB, an all-world tight end and weak receiving corps -- what the hell might he do with a merry band of smurfs? (The smurfs, for those of you familar enough with 80s football, torched the NFL under Gibbs during the 80s when Art Monk put up (ahem) Hall of Fame numbers. Now, disregarding Al/Gibbs/Coryell, the simple answer would be sure, we need a Keyshawn kind of guy. There was all sorts of talk about drafting Stovall yada yada, we on the Redskins boards thinking we had a grasp on our needs. Then, the bomb dropped and we had a flashing vision of what was really at hand. Gibbs had launched a scheme that not even we dared to dream up. What you are going to see next year will be a brand of football that ought to exicte football purists and fans of innovative offense. Saunders believes in some real shenanigans: multiple pre-snap shifts out of simple formations. But his design is to attack with stunning unpredictability. He will run on 3rd and long, pass with 2 TEs, shotgun a draw, you name it. The genius comes from the randomness generated from simplicity. And it calls for versatility and intelligence above all. Randle-El is precisely what we wanted, and I'm stumped how this is eluding astute observers of Saunders and Gibbs. While Santana and Lloyd bring impressive downfield ability and ball-adjustments, El will be in the slot causing all manner of havoc. Will he run, will he pass? Cooley indeed is our possession guy, but we also have options there too with Fauria (underrated in the red zone, and a sweet blocker). And let's not forget David Patten either. Remember the Rams? Torry Holt, Az Hakim, Isaac Bruce, etc? We're pretty liberal in DC on our role assignemts. Associate Head Coach Offense, one example. We do not have "free" safeties. We do not name starting linemen. You get the idea. Every man on the 53 squad is technically a starter. We rotate, confuse, and promote the idea that the team comes first. Gibbs has cleared the locker room of all ego. Note the press conferences and the interviews... and you'll see "character" come up all around. Gibbs is deceiving, and brilliant. I probably sound too gung-ho here, like I've swallowed the Kool-Aid. I don't mean to go off, but having Gregg Williams run the aggressive, role-oriented D and now Saunders masterminding the O while Gibbs oversees it and Dan finances it -- well, that's why this isn't the 2000 Redskins. People better watch out. Possession receiver? No. More like 4 wides and gashing holes for Portis. Patten from the slot, halfback options, flea flickers, sweeps, Hail Marys and all coming from plain jane, oh-look-it's-a-run sets. As they say in the Guiness commercial -- brilliant. This ain't Spurrier's rent-a-wreck Redskins. Brandon Lloyd is 24. El is what? 27. Moss is in his prime. Patten is the old man at 31. And Portis is just hitting his stride. People wail on Brunell but this could be his Elway win-the-guy a Super Bowl retirement party. And you have Campbell slowly absorbing lessons for two seasons. Oh, boy. Things are getting exciting in the NFC East...
Well as for the HOF argument, you need to take it up with Peter King. And think of KC.. Saunders Out Herm In I pity those people..they have no idea what they just signed on for.
DAMN, I like your posts. You just summed up my feelings on our own new FO perfectly. I have no idea at all what to expect once the team hits the field, they are following the blueprint prefectly as far as I can tell. I know the term 'blueprint' is cliche, but it's how many teams do it today. And they are doing it in a no-nonsense fashion reminiscent of the Parcells Jets. Gives me pride to know that the, uh, less than supportive end of the spectrum of Jets' beat writers is grasping at straws when they try to criticize. A lot of Jets fans see what the team is doing and think it is a weak, unprofessional approach to building a team. But it's exactly how I'd do it, I think it's the right way - from the ground up, heavy on the fundamentals in a scheme change, with stopgap role-playing transition veterans (FA) to ease the process. So I can sit back confidently and wait for the developmental process to begin. I do commend Snyder on the unlikely and dramatic and typically bold move of bringing Gibbs out of retirement. I criticized it to no end but he proved me wrong in spades... and since I always admired Gibbs as a coach I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.
That's exactly what I meant about our becoming the Yankees of football. It's amazing how negative the national media has turned on us. I don't say that defensively, but to perhaps explain why some fans in DC are getting testy. When, oh when, will we get a fair shake? Credit where credit is due?? When we win the Big One, of course. Which is how it should be. I wondered about this one for awhile. Did it just take Herm so many years to run what Parcells built into the ground? I like Herm, but I only really got to see him at press conferences on Total Access. I felt like he was a perfect fit and a straight shooter in NY -- all the way up to the mess of a departure. As for KC, I'm not liking it one bit. I personally believe Vermeil was pushed out when the brass there saw an opportunity to bring in Herm. All very covert, all very hush hush, like pushing out a tenured professor for a graduate TA. Not that Vermeil wasn't contemplating leaving. He just had the look of a man in shock who was being shown the door. That broke my heart. You now have system builders again, if they survive the transition. I'm sure your owners are hoping for a Cowher type tenure that will allow a 15-year learning curve and still leads to a Super Bowl by 50. Riiiiiiight.
You seem to have made some friends on this board. Come back on at a more decent hour and ask about Herm..I think the responses will burn out your computer. Suffice it to say that Herrm had no qualifications to coach an NFL..especially on Sunday. He couldn't evaluate personnel, horrible game manager and basically a huckster. I found him to be a fraud frankly. and by the way..what are you doing up so late?
I DO want to know more... and I willl be back. I assume the bad feelings weren't all generated by the ugly divorce? NY fans are too sophisticated for that. I once watched a Jets game in New Orleans that had me :breakdance: I had never seen so much wit/cheekiness on public display. In SF (I travel to watch football, it's true) I nearly got attacked in the subway when Garrison Hearst won the game with a last-second runback. That's not passion... that's thuggery. I could say the same for you. My best friend lived in Fairfield until last month or so... taught high school math but left to write the Great American Novel in Arkansas. Moi? I have an excuse -- I live in (hush now) LA. We have no football here, which is why, brethren, I turn humbly to your NY congregation. The city that never sleeps... posts! :jets:
