it is impossible to have a logical discussion with someone who refuses to believe that true is the opposite of false and 1 does not equal zero. are you high or something?
It was I backwards pass clear as day. I don't know how it could even be argued. Maybe if you never saw a replay but jeez...it was so obvious to any armchair QB.
Actually, the ball was intended for a receiver that was behind where Chad was, however, Colvin, was just a step beyond the LOS, forward from where Chad was.... When the ball touched Colvin, it was ahead of where Chad's release point had been...
The call on the field and the subsequent review were completely correct according to NFL rules. Why are we still arguing this? The live angle they showed on TV wasn't that clear but all the replays were totally clear, it was a backward pass = fumble. End of story
you draw the line on whether the arm is hit or not. why do you keep confusing a play in which a QB's arm is hit with a play where he throws the ball cleanly. they are two different plays entirely with two different rules. you are either being dishonest or ignorant to attempt to continue to confuse the two.
Again (and again and again), I saw the replay. Can we get past that? I'm saying the real time call on the field should have been incomplete pass. I'm saying I've never seen a pass tipped at the line called a fumble on the field. I'm saying I've never seen a call that close go to anyone but the Pats. How about we stop with the insults? I'm sorry if you do not like my opinion, but that does not give you to be insulting. We're all Jets fans here, talking about one play in one game.
The ref on the field had the best view and he saw a backward pass. That's how he called it and that's what the review confirmed. No whistle, no stoppage of play.
You piece of skunk dung, I attended school, college, and got my masters in New York. I'm sick of your insults. So kiss my ass if insulting me is the only way to make your point. Time to step up and quote the NFL rule book where it draws the distinction between a QB's arm being hit and a ball being tipped at the line. What do you got? You've stated it at least 5 times as being fact. Link?
it is fact. perhaps you should research your own positions before arguing them. it's funny how you continue to demand other sto present the rules when you yourself refuse to provide any that back up your position. and I haven't insulted you. being ignorant is lacking knowledge, which isn't an insult, just an evaluation of the knowledge you posses. and being dishonest is simply an analysis of whether you are telling the truth. in this matter, you either lack the knowledge of the rules, making you ignorant (not an insult) or are ignoring them to make your point, which is dishonest (again, no insult there).
It's entirely possible that Belichick briefed the refs on this play before the game - my understanding is that the coaches go over things with the refs that they want to bring their attention to, whether it's a possible trick play that they might pull that might appear to be illegal but isn't (for example, a few years ago when Troy Brown was "walking off the field" during what was actually a fake field goal against the Rams), or in this case, a tendency that the Jets may have had to throw a lateral somewhat inadvertently. It's quite possible that this is something that Pennington has done in the past that Belichick was looking for.
fenwyr, It is kind of humerous how you are insulting the refs for making the right call on the field. Your arguement is that the refs would never have been able to make that call in "real time". The fact that they were able to make a call like that is a testament to their abilities. If they had made the call wrong then they could have been insulted but the fact that they made an outstanding call negates that. Also, you can't stop a play just becasue there is a chance someone could get hurt. It's football, someone can get hurt on any play. It's a bunch of 220-350 pound men hitting eachother while running full speed. You can't just stop a play that is still in play just because you are afraid someone gets hurt. Thats why they are professionals. We aren't talking about a five year old girls soccer team here.
Even on the review, if that camera was inches off the LOS, it could result in the balls flight to end up 1-2 yards in either direction. Your refusal to even question the almighty judgement of ONE old guy to make call shows your own ignorance.
simply for my own amusement to humiliate our new york masters degree: two seperate rules, one for forward pass: 7. Any forward pass becomes incomplete and ball is dead if: (a) Pass hits the ground or goes out of bounds. notice the clear qulaification of forward pass is incomplete if it hist the ground. and for backwards pass: Backward Pass 1. Any pass not forward is regarded as a backward pass. A pass parallel to the line is a backward pass. A runner may pass backward at any time. 2. A backward pass that strikes the ground can be recovered and advanced by either team. there you have it, a backwards pass that strikes the bround can be recoevered and advanced by either team. there is no NFL rule that states a backwards pass that is tipped is an incomplete pass. speak up now, know it all. though it is strange that you have stated that agree with the call of a fumble (just not that it could be made in real time) and yet you are disputing the rule with me at the same time. you are so confused you don't even know which arguments you have made to continue to post coherently. you can go read the rules here for yourself: http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules
it doesn't matter where the ball could end up, just where it is when it is tipped. at the point of contact, the pass was a backwards pass. that is it. there is no other qulaificiation. the more you have to make up ammendments to your argument exemplifies how weak your position is.
No, we are witnessing the entire California "Way Of Thinking" in action. Nothing is as it exists in real life, only perceptions are important. Superficial fronts are all that matters. Logic has no real place or importance in an argument because if you argue your point long enough and with enough intensity, it becomes "reality" and is valid. Convoluted logic is acceptable, however. In some sort of bizarre, twisted way, the argument is enhanced by introducing other, convoluted, unrelated circumstances designed to bewilder and befuddle. Above all, confuse the opponent by sidestepping and introducing other variables, especially if you've clearly lost the argument or taken the wrong side to begin with, but stubbornly refuse to let it go.
I didn't insult you. I can if you'd like but I'd prefer not to get banned. I don't dislike your opinion, I just think it's dead wrong...and quite obviously at that.
This is ridiculous, it was a backwards pass, lets not be so stupid. I will not complain about this, it was the same as a fumble and the right call was made. Lets not be sore-losers.
I feel the need to defend Fen a bit here. While the call ended up being correct, I too have never seen a play where a DL knocks the ball down at the line of scrimmage called a fumble on the field. Usually the only time you ever see this is if it's a swing pass or a WR screen and the receiver (or RB) drops the ball. In regards to if that happened to the Pats they probably would have called it incomplete. Well, it didn't happen so we could only speculate and based on recent history I would have to say that the play probably would have been called incomplete. Again just based on recent history.
I liked seeing fenwyr get owned here. He has trouble with NFL rules. He gave me a hard time about the pass interference call on Justin Miller on 10/1. http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=12503&page=2
