Fair enough. But that still doesn't provide a solution to what or how the Jets could've done or move out of that spot. The only viable players left in that top 10 was an undersized DT, a few MLB's, a LT and a CB. I'm sure the Jets FO saw the same red flags the pundits saw in Gholston, but unless you can prove that we had takers looking to take our spot, I can't really label this a panic move or even a bad move. If Gholston had shown promise last year amidst being labeled a huge potential bust, it would've looked like a brilliant move. And if he busts, he busts. We took the only player that made sense, wasn't a reach and had a 50/50 chance to make it in the NFL. Worse comes to worse, Gholston will tie up our cap for a few years, which sucks, but it's not like gave up anything trying to get him. Besides, he's coming up to his 2nd year under a new coach and new defensive system. Let's see what he does before we jump ship on him. Sure, reports aren't encouraging, but hopefully something will go on this kid and he starts coming around.
I don't know if this was posted, but the guy from TheJetsBlog.com had a rebuttle to Florio's horseshit article. http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/07/06/in-which-i-trash-lazy-hot-seat-conjecture-from-mike-florio/ in which he said this about Gholston and why the Mangini era was coming to an end:
Sometimes when you don't have viable options in your draft position, you have to sacrifice value for the future. This year the Browns gave us the 5 pick for a pittance - some role-players and another 2 pick. People laugh at them now, but if any of the picks get got in trading down turns out great, and if Elam turns out to be a solid starter at some point, they will look smart for avoiding that 5-pick rookie salary. You can bet Gholston was the reason Mangini was lobbying to trade down, too. Egg on his face. Nobody wants to look like a fool for paying that much money for hype. It's not all the Jets' fault, either. If we had a rookie salary cap, something I am in favor of, Gholston being a bust would not be as much of a factor... and the pressure to pick him for need would also not be as big. A reach would not be as tragic if it pans out.
That's probably true. I was looking at how the Draft went down that year. We could've reached for Jonathan Stewart or even Jaguars' Derrick Harvey (19 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 2 PD, 1 INT) would've looked like the right thing do given his production. But if they didn't pan out those moves would've reeked of panic. I can't say I feel the same way about Gholston. There's really no other way to paint this, disappointing practice reports or not, he better step up and earn his money this season. No way around it.
The rookie cap really is key to making the draft great again. The teams at the top of the draft (i.e. the top 5) would all be able to trade down again, and do what all teams in the top 5 need, acquire a quantity of young players taken as opposed to one hopefully great player.
The same big board pundits whose opinion you dismiss were the ones saying he had bust potential. I have no problem w/you dismissing there opinions in favor of actual NFL FO's, but you can't take half of their opinions as valid and throw the rest in the garbage. No one knows where other NFL FO's had him ranked in terms of BPA, but we know that most of the pundits had him in the range where we picked. I'm not saying it was a good pick, I just don't really agree with the reasons behind your criticism.
I'm not dismissing them (although I have done that in the past), I am saying they had him rated so high because it was likely the Jets were going to pick him for whatever reason, be it the amount of attention he was getting from them at the combine, personnel department leaks, Jets needs, whatever. Because they had him mocked to go at 6 doesn't mean he was the 6th rated player in the draft, or the BPA at the 6th pick - just that it looked like the Jets wanted him. I don't view these pundits as scouting experts, just info-gatherers hiding in the bushes and trying to predict the outcome of the draft - and rate the players close to that order to make themselves look like experts the week after the draft happens.
I think you're confusing Mock Drafts with the ranking of actual prospects. Mike Mayock had Vernon Gholston ranked in the top 5 for all prospects in that year's Draft. He did mention that Gholston had a knack for taking plays off or being a ghost for a number of games, but if he was in the right system they could get the same Gholston that set the most sack record @ OSU. Gholston was a specimen at the Combine. And he had a resume to back it up. It's just finding pitting him with the right coaches and pluggin him in the right system that's the problem.
The Jets had to take Gholston on the 6. The right move would probably have been to trade down though, swallowing a little value along the way if they had to. I'll never say that drafting Gholston on the 6 was a mistake, because like D'Brick on the 4 in 2006, there was just no question that if the Jets exercised the pick that's the way it had to go down.
You just proved my point. Why would such a football ORACLE like Mayock rank Gholston in the top 5 if he had a knack for taking plays off? Does that sound like a top 5 player to you? He had him ranked that high because he had info that someone would take him that high. I don't give a crap about college sack records, some players just don't have it upstairs to take it to the next level. Looks at Ozzie Newsome. The guy never misses, because he has mental powers to dig into the brains of top prospects and see if they have the instincts and mental ability to play at NFL speed. It's not just about physical ability.
Like I said, he had him ranked that high because Gholston had the most boom/bust potential. I guess Mangini thought he could take on the challenge to light that fire under his ass and failed miserably. I think this change of scheme will do good for him. It has to. There's no way he could do as good or worst than last year. I refuse to believe that. If he fails with 2 completely different coaches and 2 different systems...1 that thrives on pressure...then you can say he's a bust and will more than likely have a hard time finding another job in the NFL. But I can't knock this organization for drafting him when they did.
I love that term 'The most boom/bust potential'. It's such a splendid way to say 'I have no fucking idea if this guy is any good - but I'll take the credit if he is'.
Hahaha. True. But does anybody really have any idea? I do have to say this much about Mayock. His last 2 (I say 2 because I can't really recall any in the previous years, or if there were any at all) "can't miss prospects" were Jerrod Mayo and this year's Robert Ayers. Mayo has already proven himself and I look forward to seeing how Ayers does next year. Gholston on the other hand...was definitely NOT a "can't miss prospect". Figures.
See, that's what I am saying. If he truly believed that Mayo was a 'can't miss prospect', why did he not have him ranked higher than Gholston - who took plays off and disappeared? Was it because he knew Gholston would be taken higher maybe?
Had Gholston gone to the Bills and say he thrived in the 4-3. We'd be sitting here kicking ourselves saying, "Gholston would've been a beast in the 3-4. Why did we pass up on him? Bryan Thomas sucks balls." It's just what happens. I'm taking the wait-n-see approach. He's gotta make something happen for himself this year.
I'm not holding my breath. I took the wait and see approach all of 2008 - and I wasn't really expecting his to explode, just show some signs that he was even the tiniest bit worthy for the 6 pick. Not even the tiniest. He didn't exist. If he suddenly flips a switch this year and turns into a beast, I will support him, but I'm not sitting here waiting for Bryan Thomas part II. If I were a betting man, which I really am not, I'd say expect this guy to suck until his contract year and then put up some numbers for either the Jets or some other sucker team to give him some more easy money.
Yeah but when I lose all of my vCash, which will undoubtedly happen before the end of the 2009 NFL season, I don't have to worry about buying vFood.
