The other thing to consider is that if Edwards gets more catches / TDs / YPC than Stuckey did in his first 4, then he's an automatic upgrade at the spot early on... which can't be a bad thing either. I don't think it's a stretch to expect him to do that much at least. Returning to 2007 form is another story and I'll go skeptic with you on that one.
I think he is easily an upgrade over Stuckey in most ways, but until we see different, effort and concentration aren't among those ways. I have faith in Rex, and I have some faith in Schotty. If this dude starts playing like we saw him do for a season, the trade was a steal. Too early to tell, and as such it's too early for me to go all in on this guy yet.
If we could have unloaded Gholston in that trade, and would have been incredible. I can't imagine that Mangini would want this guy. He's a bust. I'm really happy overall with Tannenbaum as GM. He isn't afraid to make a big move.
Trading Gholston would have put us so far over the cap that we wouldn't be able to afford Edwards' existing contract without cutting 3 starters. If Gholston doesn't improve and the NFL goes capless next season, I would expect he gets cut immediately.
I don't think it would be that easy. I think they put in some mechanisms that would make the cap hit still kill the cap down the road.
What you said makes no sense at all. How would trading Gholston put us over the cap? If we get rid of him in a trade, we actually get rid of his salary, and our cap figure is less. And why would we cut him if NFL goes CAPless? If there is no CAP to worry about, it's more of a reason to keep the guy rather than cut. And finally, why would NFL go CAPless? In this economy, if anything they will reduce the CAP number, not make it infinite (which is what goes capless means).
I have to agree with the original poster: Tanny really made an amazing move here. What amazed me the most though is how he pulled the trigger when Edwards' value was at all time low. He just had 1st catchless game in his entire career, he punched out LeBron's friend, and guess who is on the phone taking to Mangini about a trade? Buy low, sell high. Edwards is a star quality player. It's not like he was in Pro Bowl 10 years ago. It was just a season before last. And he is still very young. To get a guy like that, you typically give up a solid starter plus #1 or #2. That's what they wanted during the offseason when they were talking to Giants. We did not give up a starting quality player in this deal at all (Stucky is a 3d WR at best, he only started for us since we had the worst WR situation in the League), nor #1 or #2 pick. Yet we ended up with star caliber player. Unreal. That's the beauty of buying low. A guy like Edwards will not be down for long. Tanny was patient and he pulled the trigger at exactly the right time. Yeah, we are 4 weeks into the season, but he will get up to speed quickly with 13 weeks still to go in regular season. Much better than giving up someone like Cotchery and a first rounder, which is what we would have to do just a month ago to get him. Absolutely brilliant!
You have absolutely no understanding of how the salary cap works or what's going on with the CBA. First, cutting or trading Gholston would accelerate the cap hit of his guaranteed money to this season, thus putting the Jets over the cap, thus forcing them to cut more salary to get back under the cap OR forfeit high draft picks as punishment for going over the salary cap. Next year, when there's no cap assuming a new CBA doesn't get worked out, teams can cut players with huge contracts who aren't worth their contract, get the guaranteed money off the books and not worry about salary cap implications as a result. Also, the cap isn't going to become an "infinite" cap, it's just going to expire, thus leaving no structure in place so that every team in the league can spend as they see fit, whether that be hundreds of millions or very little. Understanding how the cap works will allow you to also understand how every team in the NFL can remain competitive year in and year out... without a cap the league will return to a handful of good teams while the rest suck because they can't compete financially. I recommend doing some research into the topic and next time not making such uninformed posts.
Does anyone know who we added to the roster in the BE trade? Since we sent 2 players for 1 I'm guessing we added a LB to fill Trusnik's special teams spot. Maybe Renkhart? Or maybe nobody since we had to activate Pace?
Let's stop hypothesizing. Do you know what would be CAP implications if we traded Gholston today for some future pick or better yet included him in Edwards deal. What would the team CAP be with and without him for this year and the following years, until he comes off the books completely if we made this move vs if we didn't? EDIT: Found actual Ghlostons numbers for you. If he gets traded, we only get penalized for the amounts that we paid him up to this point that exceeds his CAP figure (like sign in bonus, etc). Everything else is responsibility of the team that takes on his contract. Here is what I found: his sign in bonus is 6.28 mil, spread over 5 years of the contract: http://www.nyjetscap.com/vernongholston.html . That means for remaining 4 years we are on the hook for 5 mil if we were to trade him. However, his base salary (3 mil) gets transferred to the team that will be paying his salary, the team we trade him to. That means the CAP hit would be total of about 2 mil this year if we trade the guy for a pick. According to http://www.nyjetscap.com/salary.html, we have 2 mil of CAP space left. Therefore, we are going to be right there at the CAP limit if we trade him today. So, if we were to trade him for a pick or if we included him in Edwards trade, we take 2 mil CAP hit this year, and right at the CAP limit. If we keep him, however, the following 3 years we are on the hook for 10.5 mil CAP hit (if there is CAP) and about 15 mil or so actual dollars. Got anything more to say on this? Understand that with no CAP in place, things are going to be done differently in the League. Cutting a player, while still paying him guaranteed money, even though he is not on the roster, is not an attractive proposition. You have to judge each contract in its own merit with CAP not in play AT ALL, and see what the opportunities are. Generally speaking, without CAP, players will be paid more and there will be more overpaid players. So, cutting players with large guaranteed amounts makes little sense, because there is no CAP to worry about, and you worry about money you actually pay, and if you are paying someone like Gholston anyway, might as well have him on the roster. If you cut him, you throw in the garbage 10+ mil of actual guaranteed money plus you lose serviceable player. Incredible. You are accusing me of not understanding of how salary CAP works, when the discussion is focused around having NO CAP at all. You seem to lack understanding of NO CAP implications and still try to pigeonhole within some kind of CAP related structure. Again, without CAP there is no reason to cut overpaid players with guaranteed contracts who can help the team. And as far as CBA negotiations, understand that while player union wants to have no CAP, it will have a huge hit on owners and will make many franchises unprofitable. The revenues are not going to increase just because CAP is removed. Yet without CAP, by definition cost will go up. Hence profits will decrease. In this economy in particular there is no way owners will agree to conduct a season under these circumstances. Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Give me one example where having CAP as "infinite" is not the same as having no CAP at all. Talk about not being informed. lol Please, spare the lecture of the obvious about every team being competitive with salary CAP in place. What you said right after it though proves my point. With only hand full of good teams, and huge majority of the ones not having any chance to compete, you think majority of owners will ever agree to no CAP? We will see a lock-out before no CAP in NFL. I am looking forward to your informed response.
Gholston counts $4,470,000 toward this years cap. If we were to trade or cut him we'd be stuck with $18,680,000 in dead money for a cap savings of negative $14,210,000. We cannot cut or trade him with the current cap structure. http://www.nyjetscap.com/salary.html
Thanks WhiteShoeWillie. I understand that it is true if he is cut and I also understand why this makes sense. Since we cut him, but his contract is actually over several years, we would need to absorb the hit for it's whole value. This is what the site you provided indicates too. But would that also be true if we traded him let's say in Edwards trade or for some future pick? The site you referenced says nothing about it.
Unless the other team agree's to pay that 14 million difference in cash for him - which I don't think is allowed, it doesn't matter - you still get penalized no matter if there are other players or picks involved or what.
Any separation of Gholston from the team results in the cap hit being current. There is a time based scenario in which the cap hit can be spread over two years. I don?t recall the date. Gholston will be on the Jets for at least 2 more years. Depending on what the new CBA looks like. If there is going to be one
This is not so. I did some digging on this. If we cut him, yes, we get penalized for entire guaranteed amount of his contract not yet paid to him. But this is not the case if he gets traded. We only get penalized for the amounts that we paid him up to this point that exceeds his CAP figure (like sign in bonus, etc). Everything else is responsibility of the team that takes on his contract. Here is what I found: his sign in bonus is 6.28 mil, spread over 5 years of the contract: http://www.nyjetscap.com/vernongholston.html That means for remaining 4 years we are on the hook for 5 mil if we were to trade him. However, his base salary (3 mil) gets transferred to the team that will be paying his salary, the team we trade him to. That means the CAP hit would be total of about 2 mil this year if we trade the guy for a pick. According to http://www.nyjetscap.com/salary.html, we have 2 mil of CAP space left. Therefore, we are going to be right there at the CAP limit if we trade him today. Certainly not having to cut 3 starters or anything of that sort, like others claimed.
^ that makes sense. Otherwise there would be two teams being charged with the same salary against there cap or one team with the player but no cap charge.
Trading and waiving a player affect the cap in the same way. The team that originally signs a player is responsible for the guaranteed money, or bonus money in the contract. The base salary is the only money that a team that trades for a player is responsible for. Because Gholston still has a ton of guaranteed money, trading or cutting Gholston would put the Jets way over the cap. The reason it would make sense to cut Gholston if there was a year with no cap is that it would save the Jets from paying his base salary for his entire contract without taking up a large percentage of the cap, which would make it very difficult to field a competitive team. http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp
