The same staff who has not given Leon Washington enough touches for three years? Drafted and traded away picks in 07 like we were a player away from the Sb, Let Bob Sutton continue to coach our Defense and basically find a way to get out coached in almost every meaningful game during it's regime? Is this the coaching staffs judgment your trusting?
It's been explored, but that doesn't mean it has been resolved. When you have Pennington (long time starter, taken team to playoffs - safe choice) & HOFer in Brett Favre in your way it's very risky to throw a young QB with very limited experience in the mix. I'm certainly not saying he's the 'saviour' but I just don't see the logic in throwing those 2 investments in the gutter before we've given them a legitimate chance to succeed, given the potential they've shown.
What "potential" are you referring to? I could MAYBE make a case for giving Ratliff an opportunity. Maybe. But Clemens? What has he shown during his tenure as a Jet that proves he has any sort of potential whatsoever? He does a good job of wearing a Jets cap and holding a clipboard, and that's about the extent of it. I just don't get the love affair. I really don't.
It's not rocket science. The guy had 3 training camps to prove he is worth his roster spot and showed nothing. Not one thing. Don't you remember reading the reports from the 08' training camp about Clemens actually regressing from 07' to 08'?
Are you going to trust the judgment of a coaching staff who let Bob Sutton continue to run our defense? The only way to find out is to let him play. They drafted him with a second round pick. It's now or never. There is no Qb out there who is going to get us to the Sb next year so we might as well find out what we have before we make a decision on him.
I'm going to trust the Jets coaching staff and FO to make the decision on whether Clemens/Ratliffe has "it" or whether Sanchez/Freeman/somebody else is a potential franchise QB. The OP made a great point that we do not need a guy who will throw for 4000 yds (ie Cutler). We need a game manager - Not a gunslinger.
His "now or never" was back in 2007. His window of opportunity is closed as far as I'm concerned. Like I said before, I want what's best for the Jets, but I just refuse to jump on the Clemens bandwagon.
The Cutler threads are silly for one reason. Denver wanted to work a deal for Cassel. The new HC of Denver came from NE. If he coudln't get Cassel he won't trade Cutler. As far as Clemens goes, I think Ryan wants a game manager who can read defenses. I don't think he's any "hidden gem". I do think he deserves the right to compete once again or the position. So does Ratliff. Anyone who expects this offense to be any other than safe and conservative is going to be very disappointed. Ever heard of Chuck Knox, also known as "Ground Chuck"? That is the offense this team will run. You don't draft a Sanchez in the first round to run an offense like that. You continue to draft defense, an RB, maybe some O line, but not WR's and QB's. This team will also need a good punter and FG kicker. Matt Stover anyone?
Truth be told, White looked a lot better than Sanchez at the Combine. I don't think we lose a heck of a lot with either Ratliff or Clemens, but I would like to see Ratty win out.
So your idea of now or never is inheriting a team that has a Right Tackle and Guard who are out of football to block for you while you had games where Wallace im a special teams player Wright and Brad Im not a Wr Smith as your primary targets? The guy went 3-4 with no help and could have been 5-3 if not for dropped passes by Cotchery against Washington and McCareins against Baltimore. Based on what he was given to work with how can you say he had a fair Chance. I want what's best for the team too but I Also want all our young guys to get a fair chance. We have a win now city and our talent lingers on the bench for years out of fear of not winning now. We will not be better than the Colts, Steelers, Chargers, Patriots or Ravens next year so we might as well let the kids play.
As I said in other threads, I want our own QBs to fight it out.. FINALLY.. just so we can put this to bed forever. Once and for all, we need to see firsthand if we have the answer. EVERY F-in year we put off finding out about our in house QBs. Lst years excuse was favre. And because of that we STILL dont know. Lets just bite the bullet for one year, see what we have, period, and then we either realie we have a good Qb already, or we know for a fact where we have to go in the future. This putting off the future indefinitely is very aggravating. At some point, you have to throw your boys into the water and let them sink or swim. Giving up on a qb before doing that would be the same as saying 'Well, i took him out of the pool because i ASSUMED he couldnt swim'. thats rediculous. One year, no excuses, see what we have, move on. If Cassel was a QB here, and this message board was running the team, he'd never have been given a snap to prove himself. Despite what he BECAME, Pennington looked like CRAP his first few preseasons before he finally went in and took control. And he initially looked good for a few years once he became the starter. I dont KNOW if we have the answer, but its worth it to find out. If we take ONE YEAR to do this, we can stop having this annual f-in debate about whether or not Clemens or Ratliff can be our future. I'm done
Payton Manning would have sucked behind that Offensive line in 2007. I think their nickname as a group was 'Now IS never"
Your absolutely right. Every year we spend months debating who our Qb should be because we will never find out once and for all. People forget once upon a time Chad could not beat out Vinny. We continue to delay our Future in hopes we can get a Farve or a Curt warner and magically catch lightning in a bottle and win the big one. We have been waiting for 40 years while the teams that actually do what we refuse to actually win Super bowls.
I will rehiterate, there is no 'love affair' - there is simply 'give him a real opportunity' I know there were occasions he played poorly, like any first time starter, but can you honestly say you never saw any potential in Clemens when he played in '07? All the stats/records have already been posted to death on this site so I won't refer back to them, some good, some medocre, some bad. Just one question: Who do you think played better in 2007? Pennington or Clemens? I think the majority of people would say Clemens, and that says something considering he was essentially a rookie and Pennington is a solid QB (2 time comeback player). When he went to a team that had a running game and a DEF, what a dramatic change. How successful do you expect a young QB to be starting out without a running game, OL, or DEF. aka. BAL & ATL (Flacco/Ryan) had at least 2 out of 3. If you threw a Matt Ryan into the Jets' situation in '07 you think he would have performed any better, done better than 3-4 (a McCareins drop away from 4-3). Note: I am not comparing Ryan/Clemens in skill, just in inexperience and age. I understand where you're coming from regarding training camps but that doesn't tell the whole story. I'm not saying he's going to succeed, all I'm saying is it's worth giving him (or Ratliff) a chance.
I love the way you guys construct arguments. Who did Clemens lose out to? A playoff Caliber veteran QB? And the ones who think they no more than an NFL Coaching/Scouting staff, are the ones claiming we need to draft Sanchez or Trade for Cutler...Because this staff thinks the QB is already on the roster.
ITA.. Tom Brady, couldn't beat out Drew Bledsoe...And that was in front of the best coach in football. How did that turn out ?
Everything you said here is astutely reasonable and correct. Unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears. These posters who think they know better than NFL coaches do are the first ones to accuse others of doing the same. DHarris comes to mind. Common sense and understanding the direction of this team the way you do is not what they want to hear. They want to play GM and think they know more than the FO, owner and coaching staff. Nice post by the way. We are on the same page... which is the same page Ryan and the rest of the organization is on. All you have to do is listen to what they say. Tannenbaum said it again on WFAN today. No vet QB. Going with what they have. End of debate, unless some of these posters want to do their usual Laverneous Coles imitation, whine for the sake of whining.
How has Clemens had a fair chance? Preseason??? Cassell was a 7th rounder, Brady was a 6th, Montana was a 3rd. Bill Walsh ran a West coast offense. We're going to be a running team. BTW, we can draft a QB every year, just not on day one. We can't bank on ANY of these rookies being a franchise QB either. What's your point?
Why does it have to be a 1st rounder? Are you saying Ken O'Brien and Pennington turned out better than QB's taken in later rounds???
