http://www.giantsfootballblog.com/2008/07/22/clarification-on-draft-pick-coming-to-giants/ Clears it all up right there.
Earlier this evening, Brian Bassett of The Jets Blog noted that the New Orleans Saints traded a second-round pick in 2009 to the Giants in the Jeremy Shockey deal, but the pick also could potentially belong to the New York Jets. An ESPN report had this to say about how the Saints and Jets deal went down earlier this offseason… Jonathan Vilma, was traded to the New Orleans Saints on Friday for a conditional fourth-round choice. The Jets could receive a second- or third-round pick in 2009 depending on how much Vilma plays and if he signs a contract extension. Talks have not started on a contract extension for Vilma, who is entering the final year of his rookie deal. According to Newsday’s Tom Rock, the Jets will receive the Saints second-round pick in 2009 if Jonathan Vilma signs a contract extension and plays more than 85% of the defensive snaps and for the team this upcoming season. If the criteria is not met, the Jets will then receive a third-round pick and the Giants will get their original second and fifth-round picks. Now if the Jets do receive the Saints second-round pick in 2009, the original Shockey trade changes and the Giants will then receive a 2010 first-round draft pick, rather than a second and fifth-round pick in 2009. Rock’s source tells him… “That’s not going to happen because the Saints hold all the cards, and they’re not going to just give away that first rounder when they really don’t have to.” It’s been speculated that Vilma, a fellow University of Miami product, was one of the players who was in Shockey’s ear, trying to lure him to the Saints during this summer. If that’s the case (and we’re not saying it is since that would probably be some type of tampering), Vilma may have recruited his way out of a new contract in New Orleans — at least until after free agency opens up. Many have called the Shockey trade a win-win deal. The only loser appears to be the Jets, who will undoubtedly see their potential second-round price tag for Vilma shrink to a third. well there is the answer right from the article posted above by FITM. so yeah we did get screwed. There is a clause stating that if the Saints need to give up a second in the Vilma trade, giants get a 2010 first. and to qualify for a second, Vilma has to play 85% of the snaps, and re-sign with the Saints for us to get a second round pick. So basically as stated in the article the Saints will make sure Vilma only plays 84% of the snaps or just flat out not re-sign him to avoid giving up a first round pick.
Not sure if this applies to the "contract extension" item, but the easy way out would be to let him walk and franchise him....no?
If we don't get a 2nd for Vilma they will have bent us over... We all know Vilma will return to form in a 4-3.... I'm pissed about this.
Thanks for clearing this up. Yeah, it looks like the Saints hold all the cards and will almost definitely make sure Vilma takes 84% of the snaps (or less). If he takes 85% of the snaps, it'll cost them a 1st Round pick, which wouyld be an insane price to pay. There is no way that they'll want to give up. We get the 3rd for Vilma, case closed.
The NFL usually has a close look on those things, if they feel that the Saints limit his Snaps because of the Deal, we will still get that 2nd.
This is probably true, but if Vilma gets 78% of the snaps, it'll be almost impossible for the NFL to determine whether that was because of legitimate defensive strategy or intentional tampering with the pick. The Saints would practically have to come out and announce, "Hey Jonathan... don't go in on any more plays today... we're getting dangerously close to the 85% mark." Of course, that's not going to happen.
Damn if Vilma gets 85% of the snaps the Saints are really a dumb organization giving up a first and second would really hurt. He will play 84% of the snaps or less and well get the third
If he plays 84% i think the NFL will take a close look on what snaps he was off the field. If the number declines torwards the end of the season, or all of them are garbage time snaps, i think we?ll still get a 2nd. If they want to avoid giving us a 2nd, they?ll have to use him less than you usually use a player of his class from beginning to end. If Vilma is healty and back to his probowl-form in the 43, i think chances are we still get a 2nd.
Anybody looking at this from the other side? If Vilma plays lights out and hits the market, the Saints rented him for a year. Would you be happy with that as a Saints fan? Let it go. He's gone.
I'm hoping Vilma has a Pro Bowl year. This way, the Saints will be in a position where they simply couldn't allow a young Pro Bowl caliber player get away from them, and will have no other choice but to give him a contract extension. I see a loop-hole here that could eventually fuck us over. Even if Vilma returns to Pro Bowl form, the Saints could tag him after the '09 season (since I don't think that would be considered a contract extension). That would give us their 3rd, and gives the Giants their 2nd and 5th, leaving the Saint to eventually sign him long term if Vilma has another standout year in '09.
Yeah, I agree. We got what we could and we've moved on. I'll take this DEF any day over what we had last year.
The Shockey trade notwithstanding, it's possible the Saints would've only played Vilma 84% of the snaps anyway to avoid giving the Jets a 2nd round pick. Maybe they have some more motivation now (in order to avoid losing a 1st round pick in 2010), but it's still entirely possible the Saints were always planning on playing Vilma for 84% of the defensive snaps, and Tannenbaum must've known this was a possibility when he made the deal. I have full faith in Tannenbaum as our GM and I can only speculate that he must not have felt he could've gotten any more for a player coming off a knee injury who was a clear mismatch for our defense.
I was confused on this issue as well...until I heard the interview with Saints GM Mickey Loomis yesterday. Apparently the Vilma trade never included a 2nd round possibility. The Saints traded their 08 4th to the Jets for Vilma. That can be upgraded to the Saints 09 3rd in which case they would get the Jets 09 4th.
It was in a radio interview. A poster from the Saints website uploaded it and posted a link where people can download it. Unfortunately I don't have a high enough post count to post links on this board. If you got to the forums on saintsreport[dot]com...2nd page there should be a thread called "WWL on Shockey". That's where you will find the link to the interviews.
Well, this news pretty much guarantees that we'll never see a 2nd rounder out of that deal. What would be ironic, would be what if Vilma also had a bonus clause in his contract for playing 85% of the snaps.
The Giants would get the Saints' 2009 first-round draft pick if LB Jonathan Vilma plays in 85 percent of snaps this season and then goes on to sign an extension with the Saints. Under that scenario, the Jets would upgrade to the Saints second-round pick which would in turn bump the Giants up to the first-rounder. The Saints fifth-rounder would fall out of the Giants deal if that happens. Source: ProFootballTalk.com Related: Jonathan Vilma So much for that... Jets got screwed bad.
