You have lost the context of the argument. I was not the one who said that preventing the Raiders from getting the ball out of bounds to stop the clock was the point of where Walls was. Check my post at 143, responding to flajetfan's post at 139. My point was precisely what you are saying here, that if preventing the Raiders from stopping the clock was the intent of the defensive alignment there, that such an intent was defeated by their TD.
I doubt you would have complained if "liked" you calling him a "homer" as far as the most intelligent portion of the post. You have no basis in which to make that claim
Huh? The personal nature of 101's attack is based on what? How you and he think the argument was going on the merits? Let me get this straight. You disagree with someone on something that is substantive. But rather than say how and why you disagree, you call that person a moron. And it was 101 who did so ftr - I don't recall accusing you of that. I never said Jones did not make a good play on the ball, too. Carr's throw made it more difficult than it needed to be. But I still think Walls was not in the right position.
Figures you would say that since you thought it was smart to like someone calling someone else a moron. Not a good day for your cred here. And yes, I don't like you, either.
If Walls was on the inside towards the beginning of the route, Jones could have drifted towards the inside and faded out away from Walls. Since Walls played the outside, Jones had no choice but to try and angle him out of bounds, otherwise Walls would have had a much more direct route to the ball than Jones. This was a 30 yard pass play, so it's not like Carr could have rifled the pass to Jones had he taken a post route. He would have had to loft it over the other defensive players, giving a safety ample time to get back and defend the pass. I really don't understand your point about if Walls was inside and the pass was a foot closer to the sideline... We can play the "if" game until the end of time. And for the record, you made a number of posts in other threads before I questioned your lack of response.
When I come back to the boards after having been away, the first thing I do is respond to posts quoting me as listed under the alerts notice. You are wrong to jump to conclusions about the sequence by which I attempt to address arguments here. The first I noticed was 1985's issue on the Marty thread. I was going to get to yours, as I did. What did I mean about the pass being closer to the sideline? Since Jones was almost out of bounds as it was, if the pass was more out of bounds, so would he have been. The point about Carr's pass is also not that complicated. I did not suggest he should have used a different arc. It was the location of where it came down that allowed Walls to get back in the play. And of course Jones in any event got the TD, so there's that in any event
I understand what you meant, I just don't understand why you'd try to use it in this debate. I can bring up an infinite amount of "if" situations too, but they aren't relevant. If Carr had thrown a foot deeper in the endzone it would have been incomplete. If Carr had thrown it a foot more behind Jones Walls may have defensed it, or maybe not, all irrelevant. I also understand you did not say Carr should use a different arc, I was saying that is part of why Walls did have help from a safety. I have three simple questions. 1. What type of route was it? 2. How do you defend that route? 3. Did Walls tip the ball without incurring a PI call? I believe the answer is 1. Fade Route. 2. Play the outside hip. 3. Yes. I can only assume Walls was in good position, which is what this whole thing was about anyway.
The relevance is crystal clear. You are just being obtuse. What was Walls taking away from Jones by being between him and the sideline? Jones was already so close to the sideline when he caught the pass that if the ball was more outside the completion would have been negated because he would have been out of bounds. I disagree that if the ball were deeper in the end zone it would have gone incomplete. Jones jumped up to outjump Walls when if he had the ball in front of him Jones could have cleanly run under it without jumping. Your questions are off the point. I have not suggested Carr should have thrown a different type of pass with a different arc. Btw I don't know if you are familiar with BGA at thejetsblog, but he did say about Walls "He did have a couple of negatives in the second half, biting on a pump fake to draw a pass interference call and giving up a touchdown on the throw to James Jones where he should have maintained inside technique and then he would have easily been able to knock the ball down or force the receiver out. Much like with the Woodson interception though, it’s tough to be too critical there because Jones made an amazing play." How much is too critical is a matter of debate, and I probably should not have started out today saying he played like crap. A more accurate and fair assessment would have been that Walls was not tested much by the Raiders, but when he was he did not inspire confidence in his abilities as a starting quality Cb. And of course the discussion here so far has not referenced the PI call. But as BGA noted Walls should have had inside technique rather than playing the sideline. I don't know the rules on posting links here to thejetsblog, but you can find it if you doubt the accuracy of my quote.
You are such a hypocrite did you not just diss me a few posts ago telling me I'm a loser? That I take everything personally? What the hell are you doing now?
Perhaps I'm thinking of the wrong play but I believe Walls' PI came on a flag route of the receiver breaking to the outside. The reason he grabbed the player is because he was playing inside technique so I don't really understand the reference.
You dont understand the reference to the PI call? I just happened to mention it as another bad play by Walls yesterday. The fact that he had the inside there and got called for PI does not mean he was right to play the sideline on the Jones TD.
You are one funny guy. You know what let's move on from that discussion we won't get any-where in regards to it. It would be nice for you to support some of our players instead of bashing them. Walls isn't as bad as you thought, and he's only going to get better as he gets more game-time experience. What people don't know about Walls is 4 people in his family have passed away in the last 17 months - guy works hard and wants to be a good player in this league. I'm rooting for him.
A quality veteran? If Carr hadn't flung that last minute TD , which happened only because Jones an incredible one handed catch , Carr's total passing yds would be 121. That catch was highlight reel 2104 material, as noted by a post game commentator...Carr looked good for a rookie....I think the Raiders have a good one. What everyone seems to be guilty of, included these so called expert analysts, is that they judge a team for the present based on their reputation of their past performances. Raiders have improved, the Jets have improved, the Dolphins shown they have improved by kicking the Pats all over the field yesterday. It's plain BS to hear about how lousy a team's so & so is after only basing on last year.
I'm talking about the fact that you stated Walls was supposed to have inside position on the PI call when he did have inside position on that play.
I did not say that. The inside position he should have had was on the TD. Again the post where I quoted BGA is at 189. Read it again.
I don't believe Walls should have taken inside coverage on the play, nor do I think he could have easily batted it away had he been inside. With 30 yards to the endzone, there was a strong chance the route would be an out route, a comeback route, a fade route, or a back shoulder throw in an attempt to catch the ball and get out of bounds to stop the clock. Playing the outside hip was the right choice to keep the potential catch in bounds to continue the clock run off. Walls was playing off man technique in an attempt to keep the play in front of him and make a tackle before he stepped out of bounds. If Walls had been playing inside with the plan to run Jones out of bounds, Jones could have potentially made a break outside and caught the ball for a gain and clock stoppage, or he could have run the fade to perfection as I showed in the clip. Since the throw was ultimately a deep fade, Walls maintained close outside coverage, ran stride for stride with Jones to the endzone, and was able to slap the ball and forearm of Jones. If he had inside coverage, and Jones had to jump for the catch it is possible that Walls could have pushed him out of bounds, but as you said yourself he only jumped to outjump Walls. Had Walls been inside, and Jones run the fade to perfection, no jump would have been needed anyway and the pass from Carr would have been a sure catch. The whole idea of a fade is that the DB is inside and the receiver fades outside to create space. A DB can only run a WR out of bounds if the WR lets him, but a fade route run properly is the killer of inside coverage. Jones did manage to pin Walls against the sideline a little more than I would have liked, but I disagree that he should have been inside.
Seems like a lot of fans here were pleasantly surprised by our secondary yesterday, but I think that's only because those fans underestimated how terrible our secondary was last year. People saw Cromartie's name and thought it's not that bad, but he was arguably the worst corner in the league last year and Milliner was pretty terrible for most of the year as well. Compared to those guys, things arent that bad. But our secondary is still vulnerable. I love the way Allen is playing, but he wasn't targeted a lot yesterday on deep throws, and at least one time that he was, he did get beat, when the receiver made a sharp come back to the ball. It might be a differen't story as more elite receivers run with him on deep routes. Still, he is pretty new to the position, so should get better with experience. The thing I love about him, is that if he's near the receiver on any play, he can make the play, tackle, whatever. Walls is my biggest worry. Yesterday did not lift any of my fears about him. He got beat on that late TD, but more worrying is how he got beat. It was a throw where Walls was in position to make a play, but it had to be made by jumping up and batting the ball down, and he failed. This is exactly the kind of throw he got beat on repeatedly last season, and I think if Allen or Milliner were in his position on that throw, they knock that ball down or away. So with that said, I hope Milliner can come back soon, I think him and Allen would be our best duo right now at corner.
