Cause if it means a changing of the guard from lollipop pitcher CP to rocket arm pitcher KC then it is worth it cause IMHO CP will NEVER/EVER get us to the promised land so sooner or later we have to make the same hard decisions that Shanny made in Denver for the same reasons that Plummer was not a pomised land guy. No need to worry by the time the NYJs have the team to compete for it all 2010 or later CP will be just another footnote in NYJ history. My question to U is if KC or somebody else is a upgrade over lollipop arm why not do a upgrade at that position which appears is what you do not want to do. Is not supposely Man edict that the best player plays no matter what they have done in the past for us? It seems to me that you go into the ledger books as a fan that does not care if we ever win the SB but instead so long as they have 10 wins you are happy NYJ fan. To me that is thinking very small when the OBJECTIVE is a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP & to that among many other positions we will have to upgrade the QB position to get to where the Colts are right now.
I would like all Jets fans to ask themself the question, "Can Chad win a Super Bowl?". How can a QB who can not run a 2:00 offense take us to the promiseland?
You're operating on the assumption that Clemens and his "rocket arm" will be an upgrade at QB, yet you think we'll go from 10 wins to 5 and we're headed in the right direction? Just because of arm strength alone? You never explained how the 5-11 season leads us to the Super Bowl the next year, either. Stuff like that happens by accident once in a while but it can't be your plan going in, to lose for a year. People thought that's what they were going to do this past year, but luckily this regime didn't use the rebuilding line, they aimed to make the playoffs and they made it. You know why? Because the only way to win the Super Bowl is to make the playoffs first. What part of that don't you get? You're living in the 70s if you think teams are still going to have 2-3 year rebuilding programs. The idea every year is to get from the season of 32 teams into the shorter season of 12 teams and take your shot. If they came in and made the playoffs in the first year, what makes you think this regime wants to now take a step back and go with an untested guy at the QB postion where we have a guy currently leading the offense? You're willing to bet at least two years of the franchise on one kid? And what if he's not the next Tom Brady? What if he gets hurt a lot like Chad or like Glen Foley? Then what? We sit here and watch your sig roll up numbers like a goddam McDonald's sign. No thanks.
I know this is an early post in a long thread, but CP does not almost always throw a pretty ball. He's fairly accurate, but he has some good receivers making some great plays on a lot of his passes. They also pay the price more often then not for going after some of his deathwish floaters.
He probably can't. But I don't know how this applies to chad seeing as how he can run the 2:00 minute offense. Maybe he can't go 90 yards in 40 seconds with no timeouts. But give him ok field position 2 minutes, and a timeout, or something similar to that, he can get it done.
LOL this worked well in the Kotite years. Yeah Mangini and Tannenbaum are idiots we should have been like the Raiders just so we can get a shot at a top draft pick. This is not even intelligent enough to be called faulty logic. It is probably one of the dumbest comments I have ever read. Being that this is an internet message board that is saying quite a bit. Please do not post after ingesting too much alcohol. Where is M.A.D.P. when you need them?
Aside from the 6-10 closer to the SB comment there was a decent(if not oft debated) back and forth going on here. There is something to be said for taking 1 step back to take 2 forward. I think what alot of people here want to know is whether or not Clemens is worthy of the move. Especially now that we are coming up on the draft. Just imagine if we don't trade our 1st rd pick for Turner. Then what if one of the top QB's somehow slides to us. What do you do now? Does our CS know enough about Kellen to decide whether or not we should pounce on the guy? It would be wise to somehow get the kid some time in pre-season for evaluation purposes. Because in my own opinion - if the CS is at least 85% positive the Clemens will develop to be a better pro than Penny has been I would have no problem going 6-10 this year to get him valuable experience.
What a rediculous question to ask... there are really only maybe 4 or 5 QB's in the league who thrive under pressure like that, and can realsitically lead that kind of drive,and it's not because they lack the skill... they lack the mental mak-up to handle something like that. our biggest problem in a position like that against a decent defense, not even a good defense, is the lack of weapons. Ellis
But is Chad worth the 9 mil we paid him last year? I'm not sure where that puts him vs. the league but I'd have to imagine that it's close to being top 5.
Given the proper tools, yes, I think he could thrive in that position. For all the knocks on arm strength he takes, he does throw a very good deep ball. He does not, and knowing this as the coach, throw the sharp outs very well. To combat those routes being jumped, you need to run combination routes, clear out defenders and keep them from driving on a SPOT where the ball is expected to be. It's a big big difference, especially when your put in a position where only an extremely strong armed QB can succeed on a regular basis. Thats why you have to help your QB, and I think we will do that more as we learn more about Chad, and surround him with a line that can actually protect him, and get him a deep threat, and a FEATURE Back, to take the focus off of Chad being what makes the offense go. Just some quick thoughts before I go to bed... Ellis
The biggest thing here, I think, is that the people who want to dump Chad are acting like we have the next great QB on our team, or that we could just go out and get him, and we refuse to do so out of loyalty to Chad. That's not the case. This staff and management had no loyalty to Chad, they want to win and get in the playoffs, then take their shot at the championship. Period. Every year. You never know what you have in an untested QB, so to purposely take "a step back" to try a guy out can be fatal to your franchise. About 99 times out of 100 it fails and sets you back years. Here's how inexact a science it is--the genius Bill Bellichick drafted Hall-of-Famer Tom Brady in the 6th round, meaning every team including New England passed on him five times. Then he sat behind Drew Bledsoe through a 5-11 season and didn't even get a shot during a garbage 5-11 season. The only reason he got in at all was because Mo Lewis knocked the shit out of Bledsoe. That's the way it works, you don't just throw guys in there and hope they are the next great QB. If you're lucky enough to have a guy who can get you to the playoffs and give you a shot, that's the route you go for as long as you can. Not just us, everybody--the great New England included.
While I do not wish to get into a debate of this since neither of us will change our mind however if I may say when the CS comes to the conclusion CP will not get them the trophy they will do whatever is necassary just like Shanny did in moving JP aside for JC for somebody other then CP that the CS feels can get them the VL trophy
Please refer to the San Diego Chargers who sucked three years ago and now have Lt, Phillip Rivers, Shawn Merriman and a chance at the Superbowl fo the next five years. A legitimate Chance! Why because they had good draft picks and not quick exits from the playoffs over the last few years. If you think the Jets are a superbowl team you are seriously going to get your feelings hurt this year. I love the Jets but I dwell in reality. Your telling me you would have rather had a first round pounding by the Pats this year as opposed to seeing if Clemens can play and Adrian Peterson. Are you going to as an intellegent football fan say we are good enought to compete with the Chargers or Colts or elite teams we have to beat to get to the superbowl? As a Sane Jet fan would you bet on our team over the other good teams in the Afc in the Playoffs. IF you can even think to tell me that you think the Jets are on the same level as the Colts or Chargers then you are the one that should stop drinking. We are not even on the level with the Ravens, Patriots, and teams like the Bengals, Steelers and Jaguars who did not even make the playoffs!
The Chargers have had quick playoff exits in two of the last three years, both at home. One and done, that's about as quick as you can get. The other year they missed the playoffs entirely. Also, one of the playoff losses was to the Jets and Chad at QB with his shoulder needing surgery. So who can't beat who now? Once again, get your facts close to straight.
Once again, The Facts are LT, Merriman and Rivers who give them a better chance at a Championship than Pennington, Leon Washington and Anybody we have on Defense right now. How did they get them? Via the Draft.
While I am on ur side & agree with ur argument however U have to thank the Mannings for forcing the trade of EM to the NYGs for Merriman which was unusual situastion at best. BTW I also think SD has the NYGs 1st round pick this year as well which if used properly will further improve them
It worked out that way, and as champ noted, they pulled a good trade and drafted well. That doesn't mean you suck on purpose to get a better draft pick, that's just a stupid plan. It's like getting in a car wreck on purpose so you can hope to collect on insurance money. It may work out but it also leaves a lot that can go wrong to set you back for a long, long time. And they already had LT before that happened, who is their best player. Rivers is debatable and Merriman is a juicer.
I never said anything about suck on purpose. I said let Clemens play and let the chips fall where they may so we can see what we have going forward and act accordingly. I feel that with Chad and the cast of characters we have now we do not have the talent to go to the big game so I would rather let the kid play and get some experience and stack some good draft picks and get the rookies experience while evaluating other players for the future. What if Clemens can't cut it. Then we loose Chad in there for two years and are in the same situation we are today. Chad has more good days behind him as opposed to ahead of him and I would rather get rid of him a year to early as opposed to a year to late. I didn't say anything about loosing games on purpose. If your a pro and do that I don't want you on the team. I don't believe in doing what the Texans did last year to get the number one pick. I also belive the Jets staff is good enough to take quality picks and get the best possible players available as well as proven by last years picks. Clemens would not have given the best chance to get to the playoffs now but I feel he would give us a better chance to get to the Superbowl later if given a chance to play.
