You're missing my point. I'm responding to a guy who keeps pointing at BB as the measuring stick that Rex needs to live up to. BB was worse than Rex prior to Brady.
Your problem IMHO is that U are looking at what BB was 15 years ago or so not what BB has acheived in the last 10 years. I wonder what U would say about BB if he did not spurn us for the Pats & built us into a power instead of that team 250 miles NE of us :sad:
ESPN Stats & Info @ESPNStatsInfo Jim Harbaugh: 4th coach to reach AFC/NFC Championship in each of first 2 seasons (George Seifert, Barry Switzer, Rex Ryan)
so rex is the only coach to do it in the AFC and also the only one to take the WC route each time. Pretty good for a guy who is such a crappy coach.
On the Offensive side of the ball, the players who were successful in New England but then failed elsewhere, probably owe their success to Brady, not Belichick's system. On the Defensive side of the ball, players like Samuel and Seymour still maintained success after their departure from the Pats, probably because they're talented players, as opposed to products of Belichick's system. __________________________________________________ Tom Brady Yards: 4,623 TD: 34 INT: 8 C%: 63.5 Patriots Total Offense YPG: 1st (427.9 YPG) Patriots W/L: 12-4 Drew Brees Yards: 4,914 TD: 43 INT: 18 C%: 63.7 Saints Total Offense YPG: 2nd (410.9 YPG) Saints W/L: 7-9 Peyton Manning Yards: 4,526 TD: 37 INT: 11 C%: 69.0 Broncos Total Offense YPG: 4th (397.9 YPG) Broncos W/L: 13-3 Aaron Rodgers Yards: 4,016 TD: 39 INT: 8 C%: 67.7 Packers Total Offense YPG: 13th (359.4 YPG) Packers W/L: 11-5 __________________________________________________ http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2012&seasonType=REG&Submit=Go __________________________________________________ I doubt there's a black-&-white answer to the question of who has greater value -- the HC or the Qb. The Qbs listed above are widely considered to be the NFL's elite. All of them have won Super Bowls, and furthermore, all of their teams have had consistent success over the past several years (*note Manning with both the Colts and Broncos*). The HCs in this group are exceptional too. Don't forget that this was John Fox's second consecutive Division Title/Playoff appearance with the Broncos, adding to his resume that already includes a Super Bowl appearance when he was HC of the Panthers. What's interesting is Drew Brees/Saints. Drew Brees threw the most yards and TDs of the group and led his Offense to the #2 rank. However, the Saints' record was only 7-9 (the worst of the group). So, was the Saints' losing record attributed to Sean Payton's suspension? Bounty Gate turmoil? Lack of Defensive talent? Clearly, none of these factors - especially Payton's absence - negatively affected Drew Brees'/the Offense's production. But what about the W/L record, along with the Saints' bottom-ranked Defense? In today's NFL, Offense can win championships, whereas, in the past, the adage was "Offense scores points; Defense wins championships." Regarding offensive production and success, an elite Qb is more valuable than the HC. Belichick achieved his success with Brady and failed without him. Cowher finally got his SB trophy with Big Ben; but Big Ben got his two trophies with Cowher and Tomlin, respectively. Having said that, in terms of overall team success (i.e., W/L record and Playoff appearance), which one is more valuable? Tough call.
If you don't see the difference btwn RR and BB besides Brady then you just don't get it. Sure BB was not great in Clevland, and guess what? He was fired. He wasn't able to put it together then and Rex is not able to put it together now. But here is what is worse. RR does not get the respect that BB gets, bc RR is a soft coach. He pleads with his team. He makes speeches and LITERALLY CRIES to try to motive his team. You know why he does this? Because it is his only way to manipulate the team. BB doesn't do any of that shit. You know why? Because his in control. He doesn't ask, beg, or plead. He demands. And he gets what he wants because the team respects and fears him. And now he has built the culture up so strong and the expectation so high, that it is easy for him to plug in players and have them immersed in that culture and quickly molded to the Patriot way. I am telling you. It is not about talent. As much talent they have on the offensive side of the ball we have on the D, yet the outcome is never close. Ask yourself, what is the RR culture? The RR culture is an out of control circus. It is about coaches and players saying stupid things. Doing stupid things on the field, not playing to their potential. The is the total opposite of the BB way and I am telling you things are not going to change bc Rex does not even understand the problem and you can't fix what you don't know. Very similar to your flawed opinion of the guy.
Well said. I don't where these people pick up these inane ideas that BB isn't a good coach and without Brady he be nothing and Rex is just as good a coach as BB. Was this an option on talk radio on a slow sports day to stir things up? One thing no one can deny is unlike other sports the NFL has a salary cap. The Pats aren't spending more than us so how are they getting more?
I never said BB wasn't a good coach or that Rex is just as good. What I did say is that Rex has done better to start his coaching career than BB did to start his. I also said that BB didn't become a good coach until Brady rolled into town. Now he has 20+ years of experience and still has Brady. Of course he's a great coach but he wasn't a great coach in the beginning. It took a HOF QB to fall into his lap and a lot of experience. Obviously their is a world of difference between the two coaches. You cannot compare a coach who has one of the best QB's of all time on his roster and over 20 years of experience with a coach who has Mark Sanchez and 4 years experience. My point has always been that Rex has done well when he has had a good roster and that was without even having a good QB. You then go into a rant about what BB does and how he builds his roster unlike Rex. He didn't learn to "build a roster" until Brady showed up! It's a lot easier to build your roster when you're winning championships with a HOF QB, building confidence in the roster, and learning what is truly important to your team in the process. You are making an unfair comparison and if you don't realize that then their's no point in discussing it any further. Give the man a talented roster and the Jets will be winners. He's already proven that. BB wouldn't have got more than 8 wins from this years Jets roster.
Belichik got fired in Cleveland. Maybe he learned something from that and got better as an HC. The numbers certainly suggest that. Maybe Rex needs to get fired to learn something, too. I don't see that the Jets have really learned anything so far, other than that they need a scapegoat after a down season to satisfy the homers that they are doing something and will do better next year.
I am surprised that you absolve the HC of any blame or praise for how the roster is built and the team set up. We will never know, but i strongly believe given exactly the same roster BB would do a significantly better job than RR. I do not see enough leadership qualities in RR, no overall vision or strategy. However, let us not mix leadership with motivational qualities, which RR has in abundance.
clearly he learned going 5-11 in 2000 w/o Brady then starting 0-2 w/o Brady before miraculously going 11-3 the rest of 2001. I'm sure it was all a coincidence.
I do think Rex shares some responsibility in the roster. He clearly had a lot of input as to who he wanted. I think the majority of our roster issues can be traced back to poor cap management in general as well as the top heavy cap distribution. I also think that Tanny may have been too much of a pushover for Rex, giving him more of what he wanted than he reasonably should have. So I don't absolve Rex of blame, but I think the degree is much less than some others do. Mainly because I see the biggest issues as cap related. Every team has some bad picks. Rex needs to learn and get better. I think he can do that.
I like RR, but i just do not see him being a SB HC. He is not showing the traits of truly succesful managers; ruthlesness, relentless focus, attention to every detail, stubborness sticking to a clear vision (true vision not just play like a jet, ground and pound babe). Think Wooden, Ferguson, etc etc.
Since the NY Football Jets inception in 1960, we have had 18 head coaches. Out of the 18 Head Coaches, only two have a winning career record (Parcells/Ryan). And only one Head Coach of the NY Jets has ever had a winning record after 4 seasons (Rex Ryan). Yup, fire the bastard. :jets:
I get your point. Just so you understand, I am not comparing Rex to BB. I am just using BB as an example of a great coach. It does not have to be BB per say. The point here is that you think that the coach needs talent to succeed and I am telling you that the great coaches get talent from what they have. Look at the great coaches in the league. They take over poorly performing teams and they transform them. Rex did that his first two years here. But he did it with rah rah enthusiasm and that is fine, but that wears off. Herm was the same way...guys bought into his rah rah for a couple years. Then they got bored of it and there was nothing left for Herm to impose his will on the team. Rex is the same way. Rex was very exciting in his Honeymoon period. His honeymoon period is over and he doesn't have anything left in his bag of tricks. You can see him trying to go back to his old quotes and trying to find his old magic "nobody's is going to want to play the jets" blah blah. It is kind of like a funny joke. You tell it once and its a riot, and tell it twice and you get a giggle you tell it a third time and everyone is like ha ha..you told me that one already. Rex is a great DC. I would love to have him as my DC with a HC that is a strong leader and maybe he will learn what it take to maintain a winning team and he will get another shot. But right now, mark my words...he won't bring this team a SB any time in the near future which it is why it is better to cut ties.
ESPN Stats & Info @ESPNStatsInfo The only team to beat Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in the same postseason is the 2010 Jets
