this has been addressed elsewhere. Simply put, opponents ran on the jets last year becusae they could, because they were ahead, becuase the Jet O could not catch up, and also the jets played many lousy Qb's and passing attacks. Meanwhile they lost ten of hte fourteen games that Revis was out. If you think the Jet pass D is the same playing Wilson as Revis as a starting cb, you quite simply do not understand much about football.
That Raider team was third in the league in scoring and 13th in scoring D. They had a terrific front that could rush the passer anchored by Howie Long. That was a monster offensive team with Plunkett who could throw bombs to Cliff Branch or dump the ball off to Marcus Allen and a great TE in Christiansen. That team with all the talent on D was an offensive powerhouse. The fact that they allowed their DB's to hold WR and put stickum all over their bodies was one small facet of why that team won a SB. Great offensive team and they had good balance on D with a great line and a great linebacker in Hendrix. Two great CB's but they were not the anchor of that team by any means.
there are several things with your argument, and I know you are very bright so I am assuming you are purposefully ignoring them because you are dug in this far and have to defend your position. having great CB's isn't the same as having one single all time great CB that is paid such a significant amount of money that it significantly hinders how much you can pay other players. For your argument to have merit with Haynes and Hayes they would one, have to be on par with Revis, and two, their salaries would have to be proportional to Revis. This situation isn't about talent alone, it is about talent and cost. the Jets surely would have kept Revis at a lower price, so unless Haynes and Hayes were each making the equivalent of $16 million per season when they played, they are irrelevant. secondly, we are talking about whether great Super Bowl defenses were driven primarily by the CB play, and that CB play made up for the D Line and Linebackers play, or made them better. you see, the reason why QB is so valuable, because with an elite QB he can make up for deficiencies in the offense. Great D lines can make up for deficiencies in the secondary by forcing the QB to throw the ball quicker. Super Bowls have been won by teams with just average to good secondaries but outstanding LB's and D Lines, or great offenses to compensate for the defense. Super Bowls have been won by teams with average O lines but great QB's. nobody is saying that great CB's can't win Super Bowls, that isn't the argument. the argument is that teams have never won because they had a great CB, and their CB play complimented the defense that was dominant in other areas. just provide one Super Bowl example of a team that had a average D Line and Linebackers but the defense was great due to the backfield. you can't, because it doesn't exist, and that is why CB has less value than other defensive positions. not that it doesn't have any value or provide a defensive advantage. but if you had to choose between a great pass rush and run stopping or a great secondary, history shows you are better off with the former. I have never seen a Super Bowl team win simply because their secondary created coverage sacks or incessant incompletions. the argument is that great CB's have never been the difference makers for Super Bowl teams. the "it is still possible" excuse is just that, an excuse to defend your position, but it is a defense that forces you to ignore the fact that there is a reason it has not happened yet.
Rich Cimini @RichCimini 1h I asked Alabama CB Dee Milliner about possibility of replacing Revis. He said he'd be just as good, maybe better than Revis. #Jets Conor Orr @ConorTOrr 1h RT @JennyVrentas: Alabama CB Dee Milliner says Jets like him. "They probably like me even more now since they got rid of Revis," he says.
Something is afoot with Dee Milliner. Gil Brandt has sniffed out a trade with oakland to get him at three. I don't know enough about him but this move is in play.........
The question was who won an SB with a D emphasizing cb, and I gave an example. They ran pretty much the same kind of D that Ryan has been running with Revis - strong back to front, in short. The rules were the same for everyone back then, so your comparison to today's rules is irrelevant. It is merely your opinion the CB's were not the anchor of the team. But your biggest error, one you should be embarrassed by, imho, is that you quoted season long stats comparing O and D for that team when Mike Haynes did not join the Raiders until only five regular season games were left in the season. From wikipedia: Haynes played out his option with the Patriots in 1982, and in November, 1983, his contract was awarded to the Los Angeles Raiders in a settlement that gave the Patriots a No. 1 draft choice in 1984 and a No. 2 pick in 1985. After playing the last five regular season games, he started in the Raiders’ Super Bowl XVIII victory, notching one interception, two pass breakups and one tackle. His partner in the Raiders' secondary was Lester Hayes, and the tandem was quickly recognized as one of the best cornerback duos in the league. Washington Redskins general manager Bobby Beathard later said that Haynes tipped the balance heavily in the Raiders' favor. The Raiders and Redskins had played in the regular season when Haynes was still a Patriot, and his addition gave the Raiders the luxury of having two shutdown corners.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Haynes_(cornerback) Not to digress, but see where the Pats got a 1st and a 2nd for Haynes? After he held out for most of the 83 season? And the Raiders got him and were willing to pay that compensation and (hold your breath) TAKE A CHANCE on a guy who held out against his former team, anyway, and went on to win the SB against Washington, after having LOST to DC in the regular season. Oh yeah, when Haynes was not on the team. And Bobby Beatherd said Haynes was the difference. I think I will take Bobby's word for it over yours. Btw Haynes went on to the Pro Bowl the next two years, and is in the Hall of Fame. I think I win this one.
That was a different era..now you have QBs throwing half the time to tight ends and slot receivers..5 people are out in patterns and a single CB just doesn't make the same difference as they once did. To prove that only 1 out of 31 other teams had any interest in him at all. Do you think that would have been true 10 years ago?
While using general examples, you make absolute statements. First of all, as noted in my post to Biggs, Bobby Beatherd said it was Haynes who made the difference between the Raiders' earlier loss to DC and their win in the SB. So as far as that is concerned, the earlier loss by the Raiders with pretty much the same players, minus Haynes, is a decent controlled experiment. In short the Raiders won that SB instead of losing again to DC because they added Haynes. As for the salary argument, given the different contract rules back then, it is an apples and oranges analysis, and I will grant that cuts both ways, since it limits the analogy. But we don't know what the Jets could have gotten in a deal with Revis, because they never even tried. Everyone else notices that TB has not guaranteed one cent of Revis's contract, so what the Jets might have been able to negotiate (as well as if they had not undermined their own position) is unknown. Having nothing to do with Revis in specific, I do not agree that the position of #1 Cb on a team is of less importance than any other position on the team other than Qb.
every position is valuable, it is what value do you place on it? kicker is extremely valuable. a great kicker is an automatic 3 points and field position on kickoffs. kickers have won and lost Super Bowls (absent of the obvious plays that put them in that position). would you pay a kicker $16 million, though? that's the point. does the CB bring enough to the table in the way that it makes up for deficiencies in other defensive areas and can elevate the defense to Super Bowl level, that it is worth $16 million? not that it makes the defense better or good, but elite. no CB has shown that to be the case.
I think that the pass rush will be much better this year. Wilkerson and Coples really started to come into their own towards the end of the season. Hopefully we draft Jones at 9 or 13 and he can be an instant playmaker to help improve the pass rush. If this happens I think that the loss of Revis will be masked.
Just reading through this thread again today, seems the same people (Jeti and Big Blocker) cant grasps the fact that Darell Revis is a Tampa Bay Buccaneer. Revis is the reason why he is not wearing green and white. Both of these "Jets fans" need to realize that. But you know some people skate a fine line between emotion and logic, I though we already had a lesson on logic BB before Revis was traded, maybe you and Jeti need to take that class over? Sorry to call you both out as I understand Revis was your favorite player on your favorite team, but just let it go Bros
Can you be a little bit more clear? What percentage would you associate the lack of running defense in 2012: the poor quality of line backers and defensive lineman to having "flexibility in the secondary" with Revis there? 40 - 60 80 - 20?
This is a weird thing to say in an otherwise good post. Look up "NFL average pay by position." CB ranks ahead of safety and LB, and in some years ranks ahead of DT as well. Only DE is consistently paid more. And if you're not referring to money, then it raises the question: why are CB's paid so much if the position has "less value" than others?
Interesting in deed. I suspect a fee factors play into this. * with more teams moving to a 3-4 in the past 2-3 years you will see LB move up that scale (as the impact the play like a DE) *the Revis and Namdi contracts squed the CB scale to a disproportionate figure (my guess)
High draft picks are overrated. Even if you pick #1 there is no guarantee you're going to get a good player. Basically we lost the best CB in the league and got a couple of lottery tickets. Our CB's were the only thing stopping us from getting exposed due to our weak pass rush. We never had good safeties only good CB's. Why can't we ever keep good players?
How many times do we have to shake our heads? What about the 16 Million dollars in cap space. If you think we traded Revis for a couple of picks then you surely are missing the entire scope of the trade...
New York Jets general manager John Idzik said Wednesday that his team would "not be averse" to picking any player, including a quarterback, in the first round, but that the team had already been fielding telephone calls from other teams looking to move up. "I think the real substantive talks will come tomorrow," he said. "I think we're in a position at No. 9 and No. 13 in the first round to get two really good players, but it also opens up the gates for potential alternatives, potentially trading down and picking up more players. We'll be open minded about it. This is a very deep draft." Idzik said the Jets' first-round draft decisions will not be dictated by need, but by "the talent available when we pick." http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...t-new-york-jets-rule-picking-qb-taking-offers Don't take any of the QBs. Best position players available. Trade down. Accumulate picks. Draft 5 or 6 players in the first 3 rounds. Guys who can contribute this season.
