Proof (in my mind) that Rex didn't want Tebow

Is that the same Urlacher who said after the game that Tebow was "a good running back"? I would dearly love to know how many "running back's" have gone 18-24 for 190+ yards against the Bears defense in 1 1/2 quarters. Urlacher was clearly embarrassed about being beaten by the Broncos, do you really think he was going to own up to Tebow the QB schooling the Bears defense at the end of that game?

lol, out comes the "IF" game again.:rofl2: Well buddy, if Demaryius Thomas hadn't dropped a sure TD pass, and if Matt Prater hadn't had a field goal blocked, Denver would have won 17-10 in regulation.

yep.

right again.

That would be a wrong guess, not even close. Denver has twenty-five 3 and outs this year, almost double the number they had in those 2 games.

I'm still waiting for you or CC to let me know who on the Denver Defense drove the Denver Offense down the field and threw that TD then got the team in field position for a game-tying field goal attempt. Don't they keep records on that sort of thing? When you find out, let me know.

Bingo.

lol, man, how true that is!

 

Did you by chance check out what Tebow's stats were BEFORE the Chicago defense changed up?

Yeah, I think Urlacher was on to something there.

Pretty much backs up what I have been saying all along. Teams shut Tebow down all day because he can't throw. They look up at the clock, see a lead and 5 minutes to go. What do they do? Drop back more, and play the bend but not break philosophy.

THAT is what the prevent defense does. I con't care if Chicago played the cover 2, the bend but not break philosophy is STILL in play. THAT is the secret to Tebow's success when he was shut down all day. Since some of you are like grammar school kids that are TECHNICAL about everything, we won't call it prevent. I consider it a generic term for dropping back a bit, letting things happen in front of you, and just playing to limit the big play. Bend but not break when you were a stone wall all day. How many teams have lost by doing just that over the years?

I also think the idea that Fox finally wises up and goes to the spread with 5 minutes to go is why they finally move the ball is a bunch of bunk. They can do that now because teams stopped stacking the box with 8 guys.

Tebow has a NASTY reputation of locking in on his first or second receiver. He is well known for overlooking his checkdowns, and if his first reads aren't there, he's more than likely going to tuck it in and run for it. So spreading it and going 5 wide probably isn't going to work when defenses are keying in on him like that.

This is why I think the last 5 minute success has less to do with the spread and more to do with the change in defense. EVERY team in the league is guilty of doing something like that, and this is exactly the wrong thing to do with Tebow. You've had him frustrated ALL DAY, KEEP IT THAT WAY. Kansas City did, and look what happened. They were the ONLY team that didn't make that mistake. Stack the box, run containment schemes, make him get around that and beat you with that erratic arm of his... you're gonna have a fairly easy day. Won't get worn out all that much all day because he's likely punting the ball in a couple minutes.

 

Ummm, yeah... that's generally what people mean when they say you "justifiied" every bullet point I made.

can pretty much sum up all those bullet points by saying , "make excuses in favor of Tebow for EVERYTHING. Deflect blame. It's always everyone elses fault..."

...and you didn't disappoint. Neither did the other guy.

We got it, none of Tebow's woes and sitting on the bench is his fault. The "man" is just keeping him down.

 

THAT is a far better response than what Tebowners are offering. Thanks.

Like in boxing, someone can say the guy only won because the other side dropped their left and got knocked out. That's fair, but it is still on them and they got beat.

Same with Tebow winning. A trend was identified. Tebow WAS good enough to exploit that trend, and I myself gave props to it.

...enter the Tebowner. They are so entrenched in defensive mode, rather that acknowlege he exploited a weakness some QBs CAN'T seem to exploit... they simply deny it all and insist it was all Tebow's doing by imposing his will on the other team. Won't even give an inch on the idea that defenses changed up an that helped him look better at the end of the games. At least I admitted he can hurt a team that does that. Even can admit he's better than a lot in that particular scenario.

I'll give him plenty of props for his role. I just think people go too far in suggesting he was the sole reason the team went where they did when a LOT of things contributed.

These people just can't stray off the reservation... watch... they just can't do it. They'll simply deny teams backed off at the end and insist that it was ALL Tebow or close to it.

 

So exactly when was the last time the Bears had a "good running back" go 18-24 for 191 yards in a quarter and a half against them? You can call it what you want, heck, you can take a few Bears defenders completely off the field if you want, no "running back" is putting up those kind of passing numbers and bringing their team back for the win. Period.

And for some strange reason you still continue to ignore the dropped certain TD pass to Demaryius Thomas and the blocked Prater field goal in that game.

So, just a complete coincidence? Heck, you yourself gave Tebow props for taking advantage of what you claim were a bunch of late game prevent defenses. How does a guy who "can't throw" even do that???

You don't think maybe it had just a tiny little bit to do with the fact that it was a type of formation much more familiar to Tebow (from his days as a Gator) and suited to his playing style and maybe that is why he had better success with it? You literally think that has absolutely zero to do with it? Nothing? Nada? Zilch?

Maybe the ridiculously skewed Run/Pass ratio and running into the teeth of the defense all day and running so often on 3rd and long had something to do with it. Just maybe?

Which is exactly what he did to a bunch of teams when Foxy changed the offense to where they had to pass and pass a lot. You really think there was no correlation there whatsoever? I mean, the ball still had to get to the receiver. How is that happening if the guy throwing the ball "can't throw"?

You know what I can't figure out? How does a guy who "can't throw" have slightly better passing stats in his 2010 starts than in his 2011 starts, when he threw the ball almost 10% more often in those 2010 starts? If he "can't throw", then shouldn't his passing stats from his 2010 starts have been even worse than 2011, since he "can't throw"? Can you please explain this one to the class?

 

Wait - a good enough what? A good enough "running back"? Even if one was to assume that all of those comeback wins took place against prevent defenses (and I do not assume that), do you think every starting QB in the NFL could have engineered all of those comebacks? How many back-up QB's in the NFL could have done so, given the same circumstances?

And here's something you haters never seem to bring up, but it is a perfect example of the obvious double standard used to judge Tebow. We hear NFL QB's referred to all the time as "clutch" in 4th quarter, late game situations where they've brought their team back to a come from behind win. Wins like that are spoken of in awe, in hushed tones. But we almost never hear as the next phrase "but those comebacks were all against prevent defenses so they don't count, anyone could have done that". I say we "almost never" hear that because we hear it frequently about one QB in particular, and ONLY one, and that's Tim Tebow. What percentage of the great John Elway's 4th quarter comebacks do you think were against "prevent defenses"? Want to hazard a guess? Do those Wins not count, do they lessen his legacy, do they cheapen those Wins? Of course not. Neither should they for Tebow, and that is if you're assuming all of those comeback wins for Tebow were against "prevent" defenses, and I do not believe that.

Man, you are tiresome. How many times have Tebow supporters suggested that nothing changed at the end of games except that Tebow all of a sudden somehow bended the opposition to his will, like a Jedi master or something? How many times have we suggested that one of the biggest reasons Tebow looked like a different player in the 4th quarter and OT was because Fox and McCoy finally took the handcuffs off and let him pass the ball from a formation that he could really take advantage of, and did, multiple times?

Why can he, and why is he? Please explain to us how someone who "can't throw", all of a sudden miraculously learns to throw in the 4th quarter and OT, regardless of whether the defense changes up their scheme, if they did?

In which life, the next one!?!? :rofl::rofl2: Because you sure as heck haven't come close to giving him plenty of props - at any time - for anything he did with the Broncos. You have very reluctantly given him very minimal props, and only in a backhanded compliment sort of way.

There, fixed it for you.

I've never said that. I'll just say this - I believe the Tebow we saw in the 4th quarter and OT - throwing from a formation he's extremely familiar and comfortable with - is the real Tebow, and the Tebow we saw in the first 3 quarters, trying to move the ball with a ridiculously run-heavy and vanilla offense not to his strengths, is the impostor.

 

And for some strange reason you still continue to ignore the dropped certain TD pass to Demaryius Thomas and the blocked Prater field goal in that game.
[/quote]

Yeah, Demarius really screwed the team with that drop. Never said the problem was ALL TEBOW. Just think he was the biggest one.

Besides, you are falling back on a couple of dropped passes when Tebow himself really left a lot to be desired in that game and many others. Keep ducking that though.

A blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while... and given enough time even YOU could probably make a play if given enough time. It's a fact though, most QBs look a lot better when defenses are playing that philosophy than during the rest of the game.

Take Kyle Orton for example. During that 4-12 season, he was KING of the garbage time stat. Before he got injured and the coach made the decision a game later that they were going to KEEP him out... he was on pace to hit the 5000 yard mark, and some were even using the words "Orton" and pro-bowl" in the same sentence. I'm not making that up!!! People were actually talking about it!! I thought it was rediculous because he only started moving the ball with regularity when the team was down by double digits, and defenses were letting more happen underneath with the bend but not break philosophy. His stats almost looked so good, the Broncos actually extended him for a 10 million dollar season. Unfortunately, he was a bum. Thank the football gods that this was for one year. (I think the Jets extended their guy for 4 or 5?)

The broncos preached that bend but not break for years... and we watched even the most mediocre offense march down the field on them for years.

so I'm just not fooled by guys looking better against bend but not break defenses. (I'll start using that term since people get so damn technical when I use the term, "prevent" which is a similar mentality.)

Not really, no. I don't see how they could have gone into that formation when the box is getting stacked with 8 men. gotta block those guys, or Tebow will only have about 2 seconds to find a receiver and get it to them. We have already discussed that Tebow has timing issues and for the most part we all agree with that, albeit for different reasons.

Believe me, if it really was as simple as lining up spread formations to break that 8 man in the box defense, it would have taken just a couple of plays and it would have been the end of it. If you and I are smart enough to realize this as a couple of internet bloggers, then I guaranDAMNtee the coaching staffs do.

I really really really wish it was as simple as lining up a few spread formations earlier in the game.

Are you going to split hairs on every single word uttered and get so damn technical? Would you feel better if I said, "can't throw very well?"

Tebow had also given them little reason to trust his arm. The playcalling was a reflection of that.

I explained that in the thread where you asked a similar question why his stats got worse as time went on. Wasn't neccessarily that he got worse, or the play calling got worse. The league simply got more footage of him in the NFL offenses and figured out what he can or can't do (sorry, ....can or really stuggles to do.)

 

So which is it? Did I not even come close or give him backhanded credit? I've given what is due, which seems to be at odds with how much YOU seem to think I should be tossing his way. Is saying he's was good at exploiting a prevent type... sorry... a bend but not break change-up when there are many quarterbacks who can't do that? Sounds fairly complimentary to me even if it isn't a 100% glowing one... which is what Tebowner REALLY want to hear.

Never said it was ALL the defense either. Just the biggest reason.

I tend to believe the guy that shows up 8% of the time is the impostor over the guy we see 92% of the time.

True, he's a different guy at that moment, but that ain't anywhere near enough to make winning sustainable. Perhaps THAT has more to do with him being in the bench? Maybe? No?

 

It damned well is that easy. Line up 2 WRs spread out wide. Then take your 2 TEs and split them out wide as well. Hell, have them stacked on both side. That's 4 guys well outside the box. Defense only has 11 players. If 8 of them are in the box, then that only leaves 3 guys to cover 4 receivers. I'll help you with the math, 1 receiver will be uncovered.

Tebow is in the shotgun. Run a freaking WR screen to whichever side has an uncovered receiver.

Takes a minimal amount of time and the ball would be out of Tebow's hands before the rush could get to him. Keep running that play until the team moves the 8th guy out of the box and into coverage.

You're delusional if you think a team is going to ignore a 4th receiver out wide just so that they can stack the box with 8 defenders to stop the run.

 

lol, overreact much? I never said DT screwed the team with that drop, they still won the game. But as long as you insist on trying to make Tebow look bad by pretending it was only by the good graces of Marion Barber that the Broncos won that game, in OT, then I'm going to continue to bring up the fact that the Broncos win that game in regulation if not for the blocked field goal and the dropped TD pass. End of story. Marion Barber doesn't even merit a mention in that case. But then you lose your "awful Tebow" meme for that game, don't you?

I'm not falling back on anything, nor have I ducked that Tebow could have played better in many games last year. But again, as long as you continue to bring up those OT games as though they are an indictment on Tebow and prove he is awful, then I am going to continue to point out that some of those games never even get to OT if not for blocked field goals and dropped TD passes, the Broncos win them in regulation.

Ah, the "fluke" theory again. Perfectly acceptable theory if the Houston comeback in 2010 was the only game of it's kind. But it wasn't, Tebow did it again and again and again in 2011, which=no fluke. Sorry, but them's the facts.

Actually, no, you're completely incorrect. Of the QB's who have seen significant starting time in the NFL this year, there are exactly two who had their best completion % in the 4th quarter, when teams might normally be playing a "prevent" defense.

- Jay Cutler
- Cam Newton

The following QB's had their 2nd best completion % in the 4th quarter.

- Mark Sanchez
- Matt Schaub
- Brandon Weeden
- Carson Palmer
- Tony Romo
- Colin Kaepernick

As you can see, that is nowhere near "most" QB's. In fact, "most" QB's this year have seen their completion % get consistently worse as the game went on and actually had their worst completion % in the 4th quarter.

For the sake of comparison, Tebow's performance in 2011 for the Broncos would have put him in the list of QB's above with their 2nd best completion % in the 4th quarter. Tebow's best completion % overall was in OT.

.

Difference between him and Tebow is that Orton's garbage time heroics didn't usually end up giving the Broncos a W, Tebow's did.

Sorry, but I saw Tebow make some darn quick throws on quick slants and quick timing routes. If you watched all the Broncos games last year, then you saw him do it too. So we know he can do it. He got rid of the ball plenty quickly in college, too, in fact, he got rid of it darn quick in college. He did hold the ball a little too long more often than he should have in 2011, but for the most part I think that was a combination of him not wanting to just throw the ball up and have it intercepted, and his desire to make the "home run" play with every pass when a check-down would have sometimes been fine.

I'd feel better if you backed waaayyy off on the hyperbole and just said what you actually mean. Then it won't ever be necessary for you to backtrack and "correct" yourself.

That may be true, but there is just as much evidence that it was exactly the reverse, that his passing performance was a reflection of the playcalling.

You said you gave him "plenty of props". You did no such thing. A backhanded compliment doesn't qualify as "plenty of props", sorry. Don't claim to have done things you didn't do, and it's not an issue. Pretty simple.

I guess one's perspective on that depends on whether one thinks the playcalling change in the 4th quarter and OT had anything to do with it. I happen to think it had a drastic change, and I believe the stats back that up.

 

Wow dude, really?

Did you even watch that game?

Denver won 13-10. That's NOT "schooling" anyone. That's squeaking out a lucky win.

Even with Jay Cutler and Matt Forte out and Caleb Hanie under center for the Bears, it STILL took a Dumervil fumble recovery and a pair of 50+ yd FGs from Prater to get the game for Denver. Tebow didn't do much of anything except grab all the credit...

 

18/24 191 yards 1TD in last 8 minutes was pretty good and no heroics needed if Thomas does not drop a long TD ( through his hands)

But you are right Prater drove himself up and down the field for the FGs And Thomas threw that TD to himself

Tebow was next to the Gatorade jug the whole time and had zero to do with the win. Saying Tebow had nothing to do with helping the broncos win is a perfectly reasonable stance , I applaud you for it .

CC this is exhibit A in our future debates , please file it away

 

Tebow had one good drive for a TD. After that, the Bears D repeatedly stopped Denver's O so that Prater had to nail FGs from 51 & 59 yds.

Coaches don't go for low-percentage FG attempts on 4th down if they have any faith at all in their Offense to do anything. The risk of giving an opponent good mid-field starting position by turning over on downs is just too great.

 

18/24 191 yards 1 TD last 8 minutes

I guess the NFL extended the field to 200 yards for that 1 drive

Dennis you have up your game a bit if your going to debate in here . Pick almost any other game to make your point . You want to stay away from the Bears game if at all possible . That's chapter 2 paragraph 3 in the T-Hater handbook .

 

I watched the whole game. I think the better question would be if you watched the game? Denver wins 17-10 in regulation if not for a dropped TD pass and a blocked field goal. And I didn't say Tebow played great the whole game, but he did school the Bears defense in the 4th quarter and OT, which is what I did say.

Lol, classic. And you're on your own appealing to CC to file it away for future reference, he still won't acknowledge that Denver wins that game 17-10 in regulation if not for the DT dropped pass and the Prater blocked field goal. It doesn't fit the meme, therefore he cannot acknowledge it.

 

I don't have to "up my game" any. You are spouting mindless Tebow propaganda without understanding what you're talking about.

The Bears Defense is the definition of "bend but don't break." I don't care if Tebow threw for 300 yds in 30 seconds. The. Denver Offense was STOPPED by the Bears D well outside of realistic FG range.

Denver won that game because MATT PRATER put two almost impossible kicks thru the uprights.

 

Shows how much you know of what you are talking about. Game was in Denver where the ball travels further on field goals. In warm ups before games Prater nails them from 70 yards out.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2