The Eagles had Jeff Garcia to back up Mcnabb, Garcia has now taken THREE teams to the playoffs. Earl Morrall was once an NFL MVP. herm made the playoffs w/ KC when Trent Green went down. We also lost more than just the QB. In 2003 we lost Chad a week before the season but we had also lost alot in FA and John Abraham barely played. In 2005 we played most of the year w/ a 4th string QB, we lost Mawae, Fabini, Curtis, ... We had ONE OL start and finish the year int he same position. It was more than the QB.
but.... So Herm in KC doesn't matter when it trumps your argument. And when it supports your argument, his stint in KC matters to you. Is that how it works?
So what is your point? You excused Edwards because his team saw its #1 QB go down to injury. Another team can lose its top QB, but they still won. Whether Garcia is better than Fiedler or Testaverde is irrelevant. So what is your point? You excused Edwards because his team saw its #1 QB go down to injury. Another team can lose its top QB, but they still won. Whether Morrall is better than Fiedler or Testaverde is irrelevant.
Boo hoo hoo. It's professional football. Every team has to deal with multiple injuries each year. Initially you only mentioned Pennington's injuries.
He was using examples of coaches that were still able to win despite losing a QB. It was relevant to what he brought up. You are comapring apples and oranges here. Vinny was i his 40s- how did he do w/ parcells in Dallas? Comparing having a former NFL MVP who led a team to a SB in the 70s to a 40+ year old backup in the FA era is appleas and oranges. can you just have a discussion and act like an adult? You don't think the injries we had in 2005 were more than what NE went through last year? and again did they make the playoffs?
Vinny T who took us to a 10 win season in 01 which was the excuse Herm used to start him in 02 was perfectly healthy in 03 and started 7 games. Chad started 9 games. Stop making excuses it makes you look like a Herm suck up.
Chad went down a week before the season in '03, vinny had barely played in preseason throwing 14 passes in 2 games and he was already 40 years old. Do you understand the difference over the course of a year that late in a players career? We aren't talking about a 30 year old Vinny sitting out a year then playing at age 31. This was a guy who was FORTY.
Yeah and when I was talking about Herm's body of work as a HC from 01-08, according to you, his two failed years in KC didn't matter. Just keep manipulating things to your liking; it's making you look very knowledgeable.
The debate was about Herm 2001-2005 as our HC so those other #s weren't relevant(but still proved he was better than good). he brought up specific examples of other teams making the playoffs w/ backup QBs so I posted examples of teams that did and Herm did it in KC. This isn't s difficult point to comprehend but everyone is in attack mode w/ me so they will try to twist any small detail against me. Take a step back, read it again and you'll undrestand the point.
Do you understand one of the reason Hem is a dope was he started a 39 year old QB the year before when the O had been installed for Chad and he had already been brought along. If he was good enough to run the O as the starter at 39, he certainly didn't need any preseason to run the same on at 40. I happen to agree that Vinny was over the hill in 03 as he was in 02 when Herm started him. He clearly was nothing more than a backup with some moments after the 99 injury which is one of the reasons his replacement was drafted in 2000. Herm had no intention of playing Chad until Vinny played himself out and he also brilliantly let Cotch rot the same way.
No, because it was all in relation to Herm being a good HC -- you're the one who brought up QBs (as it was another excuse you were making for Herm).
Do you understand that Chad had yet to grasp the offense and we had a million injuries early in the year? Imagine Chad starts week 1 of 2002 and we start out 1-4, he would have been skewered and his career here would have been over before it started. I don't think he was protecting Chad by not starting him but it was a great move that he didn't start him. Vinny was coming off having led us to 10 wins and a postseason berth, he deserved to have to be beaten out to lose his job. The difference btw 39 and 40 is HUGE especially since Vinyn hadn't played since the beginning of '02 and didn't play much all preseason. Vinny clearly was heading downhill then you add another year to his age. You do realize that players develop at different rates, right? Chad did get hurt in preseason and was on his 3rd system in 3 years heading into 2001. WRs take time to develop, Cotch played sparingly in '04 as a rook and got alot more PT in '05. He didn't hold him back.
Not an excuse, a fact. if you can't see it i can't help you. if you want to remove the fact that he led a team to the playoffs after losing his starting QB that's fine. regardless of all that comparing Earl Morrall in '72 or even Garcia a few years ago isn't comparable to what we had at backup QB and some of the other injuries we had.
Hackett came in 2001 to build the O for Chad. Vinny wasn't the type of QB to run Hackett's system Chad was. We are not talking about 01 we are talking about 02 when it was clear the plan was to start Chad but Herm lacked the guts to make the move and held Chad back in the preseason by spliting reps. Vinny's numbers had declined since his injury in 99 and was never going to get back to the QB he was in 98 never. Chad was not drafted based on athletic ability he was drafted based on smarts. If you're arguing that he wasn't ready after a year on the bench and the entire preseason in his third year in the league to run an O that was brought in specifically for him, I think you're dead wrong. The minute Chad got his opportunity he was ready and he was ready day one of that season. Herm screwed up in 02 with Chad, he screwed up moving to the 4/3 cover 2 with 3/4 personal. He had a ready made team and tinkered it to a point where it underperformed the talent. He than drafted players for his system and left the team dismantled on both sides of the ball when he left. He was a dope on X's and O's didn't have any concept on how to evaluate talent and put players in position to win. What he did was ride the talent to some playoff births in a league that routinely puts mediocre teams in the playoffs to sell excitment. His playoff record was weak and he killed the team and followed it up by getting fired three years into a new job for the exact same reasons.
I agree that is why Hackett was brought in BUT remmeber the year he came in it was Chad's 3rd system in 3 years and vinny led us to 11 wins in 2001 earning the benfit of the doubt for 2002. A ready made team for what? I again ask you why did 4 coaches walk out on this reayd made team? I know you know how hard it is to win in this league so why would any coach, let alone 4, walk out on a ready made team? You overvalue the talent we had. Mangini was a genius w/ xs and Os though, right? how did that work out? The game is about mroe than Xs and Os. BB has always been a genus w/ Xs and Os, how come he could never win w/o Brady? He got fired in KC b/c a new regime came in b/c the GM was incompetent. I don't know, he may have been but it's a good thing Vinny beat him out b/c w/ the injuries we had we wouldn't have won w/ Joe Montana. Remmber the 3 straight losses we lost by a combined scored of 102-13 and Chad did play most of the Jax game.
It must have been his 22 for 29 and 25 points we put up in his first start against the Chiefs that year.
Herm didn't start him because he knew we were going to have a lot of injuries to start the season and that's why you think Herm is a good coach?:rofl:
