You can't just send off two of most popular players. Weather or not they're worth the money, and I for one believe they are, it would be PR disaster to cheap out on these guys after stuff like the Igawa contract. It's not all about the talent and value. Besides, unless you don't want to contend in '08 and rebuild for the future, which is fine, Mo is a great option.
Cheap out? Are you crazy? Igawa? He gets pait 4 million a year (and BTW, beacuse of that he is very tradeable). They are offering that shit 4 million more then any relief pitcher has made in history and you say "cheap out"..you are crazy. Any fan who knows anything would not have been upset if they offered those two reasonable contracts and they turned them down...that's what they should have done instead of these insane contracts that will kill them down the road. There is a better chance of a PR nightmare because of this then if they just let them go. Oh, and BTW, we were already in rebuilding mode the minute Arod opted-out.
i'll be happy with Dukes behind the plate for another year for a few million, vs locking up a guy at the end of his career by overpaying him. Cause then when his body breaks down and he sucks...you're still paying him.
I'm not saying the offer the Yankees are making is cheaping out. If Mo outright rejects them, fine, no one can blame the Yankees. But pulling the offer and just saying bye, as you wish to do, is indefensible. Igawa also had a fee...I was just using him as an example of throwing money around, nothing more.
Japanese players these days usually have fees, there is no getting around them. Why shouldn't they pull the offer? He is shopping it around and that is the exact reason they refuse to negotiate with Arod. Certainly Rivera is not the player now that Arod is. They should cut it off immediately. The fact they haven't is what is surprising.
You're right, this is exactly like the A-Rod situation. Except Mo never opted out of a contract. And the Yankees would be paying the whole contract no matter what. And Mo's one of the most popular Yankees of the last 15 years. You're right, other than that, it's exactly like the A-Rod situation.
Don, I'm not even going to respond to the things you've written the past few posts. As I've told you before, I like you, and I really don't want to abuse the shit out of you. But seriously, you may want to just stop posting in reference to Posada and Rivera.
he was a leader and acting like a Captain long before he got the official title. Alex was the cause of many problems on and off the field for this team and unfortunately Jeter couldn't put those feelings aside so he did struggle w/ regards to ARod but he's gone and the LR will be alot better and easier for jeter to lead. Why is everyone worried about overpaying? it doesn't affect us. The ticket prices and everything else will still go up regardless and Met fans complaining about overpaying when that's all they've done to build that team to the lofty heights they've reached in recent years?:lol:
Never. I'm sick of the Yankees wasting money on over aged players while the team is falling apart. I'm sure you would be happy in they paid both of them 20 million a year too. I'm not. As much as I hate Boston, at least they know how to deal with their free agents. They determine their value and make them an offer based on that. If they don't take it they wave good-bye. That's how we ended up giving Damon a ridiculous contract and I hope it isn't how we end up with Lowell too. Just what the Yankees need, all of Boston's rejects. If that happens then you will get your wish as I will stop following the Yankees completely.
Because when we overpay and remain over the cap we end up paying those other teams to buy the players that every post season beat the crap out of us.
I don't like overpaying but again it doesn't affect us at all and for guys like Jorge and Mariano who have been big parts of a dynasty I have no problem overpaying for them. I wouldn't have liked overpaying for ARod or overpaying for other FAs but long time Yanks that helped us win I don't mind especially Mariano who has been underpaid his entire career.
The problem with that and I'm not talking about the dollars but the term is that when they can no longer play effectively they are still taking up roster spots and keeping good players off the team. I see both of them doing that before their contracts are up, especially Posada. What happens now if Mauer becomes available in a couple of years? Or some other good young catcher? Wasn't Rivera making 10 million a year for the last 5 years or more? You seriously call that underpaid?....lol...he pitches 70 innings a year or less then one inning every other game. That works out to $143,000 an inning and you have the audacity to say he's underpaid. Quick, tell me another pitcher getting paid that much? And now with what they are offering there are only 4 pitchers in all of baseball that would be making more and all are starters.. "Only four pitchers are signed for next year at higher average salaries than the Yankees' proposal to Rivera: Carlos Zambrano ($18.3 million), Barry Zito ($18 million), Jason Schmidt ($15.7 million) and Atlanta's Mike Hampton ($15.1 million)."
If mauer or another big C becomes available jorge slides to DH(which is the plan anyway) and we still try and get another C. Mariano has done so much for this team through the years, he deserves every penny he gets and no amount is being overpaid for him. He's never asked for too much, he's never tested the market and he deserves whatever he can get.
If Mauer becomes available, and we don't yet have a significant player coming up to take over for Posada, we'd make the guy an offer. Having Posada does not change our ability to pursue quality free agents. At $10M/year, Rivera would be grossly underpaid. A surefire closer, who has been either the best, or in the top 5 his entire career? How do you consider that overpaid? If that's overpaid, then every single player in the major leagues is overpaid. You're actually using Barry Zito as part of your argument? You don't honestly believe that based just off this past season, not even their entire careers, Mo is far more valuable than Zito? Why do you seriously believe that signing these guys for an extended period actually matters in terms of team composition? 1) Mo's contract is 3 years, not 4. Posada is 4. 2) When Posada hits year 4, he'll probably be either a DH or a 1B. He'll then be our lowest paid DH in years. I don't understand your POV. You're pointing at the Yankees' payroll being over the tax as the reason we've been losing? Seriously? The only reason we compete every year is the fact we blow out the luxury tax cap. In case you didn't notice, Boston and the Mets have started learning from us. Look around. The other teams that make the playoffs each year are one-and-done. There's a reason for that. Those teams cultivate their high draft picks after years of being unable to compete, and getting good picks. Eventually, they are all on the pro club at the same time, and they make a splash for a year, maybe two. Then a few of the most significant players become FAs, and the team can't afford to keep them, so they leave town, and the team goes down the crapper. This doesn't happen to the Yankees. The Yankees have, and are willing to spend, the money every year. That's why we complain every year of getting bounced in the first round, rather than bitching in September that we're already out of it.
Posada isn't going to be a very good DH though, while it is one thing if he is producing numbers like last year, but if he ends up batting around .250 with 15-20 HRs he would just be another clog in the Yanks roster. That being from an outsider's prospective and if he is a 1B it would look even worse than at DH since he probably would bring subpar defense as well. The Yanks had to do the deal but it will certainly suck during the later years.
It's a ridiculous point of view to say that we have to be over the cap to compete. There hasn't been a single team in the post season other then the Yankees (obviously) who have been over the cap and made it to and won the world series. Of course, it matters if Posada and Rivera are still on the roster when a good player comes along. You only get 40 spots. Like I said in an earlier post, we have to cut Pavanao and pay him to sit home so we can add o young player to the 40 man and avoid losing him in the rule 5 draft.(or whatever it is). As far as Rivera is concerned, there is only one reliever in history making more then he made over the past 5 years and that only happened in the last year. Prior to that he made far more then anybody and you are as bad as junc saying he has been underpaid. Nobody forced him to sign a contract back then when he was being paid about twice what everybody else made. To put it another way since everybody likes to bring up Arod. Rivera got paid 148,000 for every game he appeared in even though he pitched 1 or 2 inning tops. Arod got paid 154,000 even though he played all 9 innings. There is no question that if anything Rivera was grossly overpaid and not underpaid. And I'm not comparing him to Barry Zito, I'm comparing him to every other pitcher in baseball and what they get paid. They are all starters and pitch around 200 innings a year and don't make what he is being offered. Can't you see the silliness in your argument? If what you say is true then Boston will have to pay Papelbon at least 25 million a year to close when he is due a contract because he is that much better then Rivera is now. Do you seriously think they will?
Posada would fall more in line with what all the disillusioned Yankees fans have wanted all along. Less power, and more run manufacturing potential. I never said I was in favor of it, just that it is the plan. Personally, I see him finishing out his contract behind the plate, but no one can say what 4 years from now will bring, and anyone who tries is a fool. As for him at first, he's a decent defensive infielder. He was a second baseman most of his life IIRC. He wouldn't be a liability at 1B.
I didn't say we had to be over the cap to compete. To begin with, we will be over the cap, regardless of Mo or Posada. That's the Yankee way. Beyond that, my point was that our being over the cap for so long now has allowed us to basically dominate the regular season against all but the elite teams. Remember, the team that eliminated us this year couldn't buy a win during the season. You talking about Pavano is getting tired. He was a mistake. Everyone knows that. He'll be cut, and that will be the end of it. Harping on it isn't going to change the fact he's made of glass. As for the 40 roster spots, relax a bit. Here are some names currently on the 40 man: Bruney TJ Beam Andrew Brackman Tyler Clippard Matt DeSalvo Sean Henn Alberto Gonzalez Juan Miranda Bronson Sardinha How many of those names will still be on that list in April? The 40 man roster is more than large enough to accomodate star players, if need be. I can't believe you're pulling this bullshit "nobody forced him to sign that contract" thing. No one ever asked him to be classy either. No one ever asked him to never test the free agent waters because he wanted to be a Yankee his entire career. No one ever asked him to pitch through pain numerous times to help the Yankees compete. No one ever asked him to pitch better the older he got, even after most people said he was done. If Mo hasn't earned the right to a nice payday, then no one, in the entire league, has. In terms of your comparison to ARod, you know damn well that's not going to work on me. I still want him in pinstripes. You did put Barry Zito into the argument, since you specifically mentioned him and his contract. Anyone who thinks Zito wasn't grossly overpaid is fooling themselves. I wanted Zito, but not at the price he managed to get. Papelbon is no better than Mo at the same point in each of their respective careers. Unless the entire market shifts upward hard over the next couple years, no Papelbon will never get $25M/year. He will get a contract comparable to the one being offered to Mo though (at the then current market value of the same money).
