I believe he'll know enough of the playbook by week 1 to beat the Dolphins. That's not saying much, but he has a lot to learn. I believe Bubba Franks going to be a tremendous help in this. I expect that he won't know enough of the offense to beat the Pats or Chargers and expect to lose those games and see a lot of interceptions. By week 4 he should know enough to beat the Cards. By the time we get to week 5 (after the bye week) I expect that he'll know the playbook pretty well and have enough chemistry with the guys to be very effective. I'm hoping that our defense plays well enough to get us to 2-2 going into the bye week. If we can meet that goal and Favre is in fact comfortable with the playbook and his team mates we could be a very dangerous team for the last 3 quarters of the season.
Ray, IATA, Ellis-92, and WhiteShoeWillie, Appreciate the thoughts, I too am thinking week eight is where we start to really shine on that side of the ball. "By the time we get to week 5 (after the bye week) I expect that he'll know the playbook pretty well and have enough chemistry with the guys to be very effective". Love this optimism WhiteShoeWille, Hope you hit the nail on the head here, Cheers !!!
hmm will the cs allow favre to do the things he does well? thats an interesting question for me as they have been a very rigid cs as far as i have been able to see over the past 2 years. then again that was with a very very different qb. will have to revisit this thread half way through and at the end of the year.
And this is a bad thing? Having the coaches in control of how the game is played? The coaching staff got tired of dealing with a quarterback who melted down, abandoned their game plan, and just started spraying the ball all over the field whenever he got panicky. That's been Favre's history ever since he's been in the league, and that's why he's 3-7 in his last 10 playoff games. You can't win championships with that kind of unreliability. Rodgers may wind up not being any better, but at least he'll stay within the game plan no matter how much pressure he's under, which from the coaches' point of view is a refreshing step in the right direction.
No matter how much the coaches want to control things on the field football still boils down to big time talent making incredible plays in unscripted situations that they are ultimately forced into. Sometimes you come out on top and sometimes you don't. The man has 1 more ring than Marino doing it his way.
Football is football..almost every team in the league runs the same offense which is West Coast or some hybred version of it..Bill Walsh changed the game..Favre is great at reading and recognizing defenses and is great at picking the right guy when he is getting blitzed and has great escapibility and once he is free has the rifle to make any throw anywhere on the field. The playbook will not be an issue, getting in shape will be tougher..Brett Farve makes us better then we were 2 days ago..bottom line!
There are ten other guys on the offense and for several hundred practices already most of them have been learning a meticulous system of plays and techniques within those plays that they have come to rely on for their success. The way these offensive players play their game is fully integrated with this playbook. Brett is going to have to take advantage of what's already there for a pretty good while before the rest of these guys trust him enough to start extemporizing on the fly. There is simply not enough time in an NFL game between plays to "draw a new play up in the dirt" and give everybody their assignments. So there has to be a lot of work and preparation that makes such "seat-of-the-pants" work possible. Maybe Peyton and Marvin can extemporize together some, but that's because they run all their routes and throws together several times a day. Their inventions are variations on their themes. There are no themes established yet between Brett and his team mates that he can vary them from. The issue is how much of the effective parts of the BS offensive system can Brett learn and run with the rest of the team so that he is not a detriment to the play and the other players believe he is making a positive contribution instead of a mess. Throwing the ball hard is great, but it's also helpful to chunk it where your wide-out's going to be when it gets there, instead of the DB who's been working on the JUGS machine to get ready for that "rocket arm" of yours... Brett has set himself up a great big challenge here. It's admirable. It's risky. And it's sure going to be interesting to see how it all pans out. For sure.
I love the way some Packer fans blame Favre for every loss. What I saw in that Giants game was a team effort, from McCarthy getting outcoached, to Grant running for 29 yards, to Harris getting toasted by Burress, to zero pass rush. Yes, the last pass was bad, but Favre had plenty of help getting there. Seattle game, cold and snowy, how many QB's could have kept the team together after getting down 14 points due to Grant's fumbles? Didn't see Favre panic, and start spraying the ball around that day. They killed Seattle. Last I saw, the Giants did a pretty good job on Brady and the unstoppable offense too. I would take one and done any day, over never getting there at all. Last season was fun and exciting.
Sure, I agree with your main point here... but two things to keep in mind. First of all, way, wa-a-a-a-y too many of Favre's "incredible plays" seem to involve throwing the ball to someone on the other team. Especially in playoff games. 6 interceptions in St. Louis in 2001, game-losing interception in Philadelphia in 2003, 4 interceptions against Minnesota in 2005, and of course the game-losing overtime interception in the NFC Championship game this past season. That interception was classic Favre - he threw the ball to the only Packer receiver who was covered, because that was the guy he was locked onto from the instant the ball was snapped. There were 3 other Packer receivers wide open, and at least 2 (possibly all 3 of them) were open for probable touchdowns. All Brett had to do was decide which guy he wanted to score the gamewinning touchdown. Instead, he throws to the only guy who was covered, and it was a lousy pass to boot. Game over. And the second thing is, most of these interceptions are totally unnecessary. Like the one against the Giants - he wasn't forced into that at all. It was just a stupid fucking play. The 6 against St. Louis, same thing. No reason to throw those passes. It was the 1st quarter, and they had a whole game to work with. Philadelphia? Same thing. Stupid pass, no reason for it. 2005? Again, no reason to force those throws. But force them he did, and the result was another embarrassing Packer playoff loss at home. When he feels stresed out, he seems to lock onto one receiver right from the snap and never let go of him, no matter how the play develops. That's his guy, and that's where the ball's going, whether or not he's open or (for that matter) even inbounds. And the coaches are sick of it. This is why they want to move on to Rodgers. After a while, the regular season stats don't mean jack shit. The only thing that matters to Packer fans and officials is playoff success. The coaches, and the GM, no longer trust Favre not to give away playoff games. They're willing to go with an unproven, less-talented guy who they trust not to fall apart, totally ignore his coaches, and toss the game plan out the window the minute he starts to hyperventilate. Because even if Rodgers turns out to suck, and can't do shit in the playoffs, it's not any worse than Favre not doing shit in the playoffs. Packers' coaches - and, I think, most of the fans - are ready to see how things go in January with a game manager instead of a gunslinger. I think it's the right move... but only time will tell.
90 per cent of the QB's who win the SB are not game managers. A game manager losses to the Pats in the SB. A game manager losses to the Pats in the AFC finals the year before, a game manager doesn't make the back breaking play against Seattle the year before that while having a terrible stat day. Game managers get you to the playoffs if you have a good team in a mediocre league. Talent, nerve and playmaking win you SB.
Nice point Winston. It all comes down to who will get you to the BIG game now. I will take Brett the gunslinger any day. I think only those of us who have experienced years of "managers" will understand how lucky those teams are who have the "playmakers". And now we have our own playmaker - thank you Green Bay!
The trouble is, Brett's not going to get you to the Big Game. That's what I'm saying. In order to get to the Super Bowl, you're going to have to win 3 straight playoff games, right? That's the total number of playoff games the man's won in the last 10 years. Eli Manning - yeah, that's right, Eli freakin' Manning - won more playoff games in 6 weeks this year than Brett Favre's won in the last 10 years. You guys need to think about that. I'm sorry, guys, but this is a case where the numbers speak for themselves. The man can not hold himself together long enough to make the kind of playoff run you need to make to win a Super Bowl. He just can't do it. He's a playoff choker. He's proven it over and over and over again. 3-7 in his last 10 playoff games, with a quarterback rating of something like 78 (if memory serves). 19 TDs in those 10 games, yeah - but 19 INTs as well. Do you really think your team can make the Super Bowl if your quarterback throws as many interceptions as he does touchdowns? I'd like to see that happen. Sure, he's had a few truly outstanding playoff games, and a few that were nothing short of disgraceful, with passer ratings of 53.5, 54.4, and 55.4. He'll tease you with a stellar game every now and then, but you know that every game with a passer rating of 110 or 113 just brings you one game closer to the one with the rating of 50-something, the one that will end your season. Because with Favre as your quarterback, that's how your season ends almost every year. In the last 10 years, not once - not one single season - has he won more than 1 playoff game. It's been 10 years since the man has won 2 playoff games in the same season. Just exactly what has the man done to convince anyone that he's a serious threat to suddenly win 3 or 4 in a row - exceed in 1 month his total number of playoff wins over the last decade? Sorry, guys. Like i said, appreciate him for what he is and enjoy the hell out of it, but don't expect him to be something he's not. He may get you to the playoffs, maybe even win a playoff game - but that's it. That's as far as it will go. He is what he is - the most exciting player ever to step onto a football field, bar none. But he's just not the cool, calm, collected kind of guy who'll steer your team to a championship over the course of a month and half-long series of playoff games. That's just not who he is.
I believe we can win the division which would possibly land us a bye. Obviously we're not favorites to win the division, but I believe it's possible with the talent on this team. It's also possible that we only win 6-8 games, but the ceiling for how good this team can be is much higher than it has been in a long time. If you believe Eli Manning was the sole reason that Giants team won the superbowl you're fooling yourself. Did he play a big role, absolutely, but the giants defense was outstanding in that playoff run. They made the best offense in the history of the NFL look average at best in the superbowl. Favre led the Packers to more points than Tom Brady did in the superbowl. There were also a bunch of key penalties by the Packers defense in the 2nd half of that game that ended up extending Giant drives that ate up a lot of the clock. The Giants dominated the time of possession, especially in the second half. Favre didn't play great in that game but he played well enough for them to win IMO. The one interception he threw in regulation was picked off in the red zone and then fumbled and recovered by the packers. They turned that into 3 points. So in the grand scheme of things that INT cost them 4 points at most. The Giants won that game mostly because of great defense and ball control offense, not because Favre choked. The INT he threw in OT was awful, but the game would have never been in OT without outstanding play by the Giants D, and dumb penalties by the Packers D. Saying he can't do it doesn't make sense to me when he has done it, and when he had the team one play away from the superbowl last season. One play. I just don't buy it. I've already explained that I thought he did enough to win the playoff game they lost last year. He did enough to win a second playoff game in 2003 as well but the 4th and 26 happened. But you're right. The only thing I can say is that I believe he has the talent to beat the best teams in the league. I believe he has more talent that most QB's in the league even though he's well past his prime. I believe he gives us a better chance at winning more than one playoff game than any QB we had, have, our could have acquired this season. Am I off my rocker to believe these things? It may sound hypocritical of me to say this as someone who has bashed Pennington for not being able to win big games. The difference in my mind is that Favre attacked the defenses and put enough points on the board. Pennington on the other hand didn't attack, he played it safe and didn't point points on the board. Again, I cannot accept that when he has done it and he has attacked the defense and put the points up in games they've lost. Maybe I'm just a hypocritical homer.
Our Defense is going to have to carry us thruout the season especially game 1. Favre will make mistakes like int's always, that the "gunslingers" mentality. Are we better.... Hell yeah, just spreading the defense make us 90% to 100% better at QB. The other side is we will have to have speedy WRs who are deep threats and can catch VS possession receivers, the balls are going to fly.
No - no, not at all. That was a very reasonable, intelligent, and well-grounded argument. This is why I'm already starting to love this place so much; there are so many people here who really know their football, and articulate their point of view quite eloquently. You do know your shit, bro. What it comes down is that we just have a difference of opinion. I can't really defeat your position, because it has no provable weaknesses. All I can say is, I've watched almost every game Brett's played in the last 16 years - probably 230, 240 altogether. I've learned a lot about his strengths and weaknesses, and what makes him tick. I think you know football a lot better than I do, but my evaluation is based on a lot more direct observation than you've been able to make. I'm very confident in my opinion on this one. But I don't want to press my argument too hard, because I don't want to be a downer here. You all seem like a great bunch of people, and you've really made me feel welcome. As a longtime fan of Favre, it really makes me happy to see how happy you all are to have him, and I want the whole lot of you to be able to enjoy your new toy while it's still shiny. I've just got a rather sad feeling that by the middle of the season, or maybe the last third of it, you'll all see what I'm talking about. My biggest fear is that when that happens, a lot of the people who are so thrilled to have him now are going to turn on him. And I'd feel pretty badly about that, because that's something he's never had to deal with in his career and I think it'd be hard on the guy. As disgusted as I am by the way he's behaved the last month or two, I've been a huge fan of the guy for way too many years to just stop caring about him. I'd hate like hell to see a career as amazing as his, characterized as it's been by so many exhilirating moments of pure, childlike joy, end with him feeling beaten down, unloved, and unappreciated by the fans of his team. A career like his just wasn't meant to end that way, and I sometimes fear that that's what he's set himself up for here. Anyway. As much as I usually like being right, I dearly hope that I'm wrong this time. There are few things I'd like more than to see him win it all one more time, and I honestly don't give a rat's ass what color shirt he happens to be wearing at the time. But short of that, I'll just settle for one or (if we're all so lucky) two more years of watching the guy do that magic that only he can do.
The Jets do not run any form of the West Coach offense. It's function and intent is different, and the terminology is completely different.
Favre's a lot better with possession receivers than downfield speedburners. He's just not a vertical quarterback; the short game has always been where he excels. Sure, the adrenaline junkie in him loves the home run plays, but he doesn't really have that great a deep ball, and the best offense for Favre would be to use downfield routes sparingly, to keep the secondary honest and open up a little bit of breathing room for the short slants and screens that are his strength. Green Bay's offense last year was designed to rely on the receivers getting their yards after the catch, rather than running deep patterns. It's no coincidence that he had one of his best years ever, and if your coaches are smart, they'll recognize that and learn from it.
Apparently the Jets run a lot of the same type of plays as the Packers...although I would like to disagree since I saw the Packers WR catching balls downfield..
Wild Thing - I think the difference between us and you is that for 16 years you had a quarterback who had the potential to get your team to the big dance. He brings energy and excitement to Jets fans who having been living in the land of dink and dunk and defenses cheating up on the line. Chad Pennington ranks first all-time in NFL history in completion percentage at 65.6 percent (1,259-of-1,919). I love Chad, but what do we have to show for that statisitic? You've had years of a QB who could air it out - yes, occasionaly causing turnovers due to being willing to take risks. He has led the Packers to seven division championships, four NFC Championship Games, two NFC Championships, and one Super Bowl championship. We've had years of a QB who was known for being a smart game manager. No championships and no superbowl. See the difference? Brett will do fine with our receivers since they are much like Green Bays. Besides, we aren't asking Brett to carry a young team with a bad coach. We just want him to be Brett. I think he can handle that. Player G GS REC YDS YAC Cotchery, Jerricho 15 15 82 1130 444 Driver, Donald 15 14 82 1048 438 Coles, Laveranues 11 10 55 646 145 Jennings, Greg 13 13 53 920 394 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/stats/2007/jets/index.html http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/stats/2007/packers/index.html
