you'll only catch the chicken if you keep shovelin' that coal into the engine and chuggin away till the end of the race...
I agree, all nastiness aside, I did respect herm the man, I just wanted him gone from my favorite football team because he can't coach once the first whistle blows.. He should quit the side lines and move into the front office where all that talking is appreciated.
I just thought id bring this up even though its old-everyone criticizes Herm because he always says "you play to win the game" and you think that he does stupid things with clock management and concervative play calling but excluding last year-he always put our team in a position to win the game-for example-playoff game versus the Steelers-He gets us into a position TWICE to win the game with a 45 yard field goal yet his players did not come through-throught his tenure he always put our team in the position to win and then left it up to the players that Bradway put on the team to win the game and i think that is what made him a very good coach
How is that putting your team in a position to win? That's called taking your player's and shooting away any chance they had to win it themselves. If he had let the players play, perhaps we get a TD there, and we don't rely on a long ass FG. Exactly how did we get the ball to that position anyway? A great Herm coaching decision? No, a Big Ben mistake, with a defensive player capitalizing and returning the ball to that spot. I knew even then, when the player was tackled, that we wouldn't find a way to score. That's because it was up to Herm again, and he'd find a way to blow it.
SNY needs to add the last 5 minutes of Herm's press conferences after a Jet game. It would be great entertainment...........
Best and worst of Herm (incidents and traits) Best: "You play to win the game!" and its aftermath. Firing Cottrell and hiring Donnie Henderson. General motivational abilities. Kept the press at bay. Firing Paul Hackett. Worst: Clock management abilites (see vs. PIT in 2003, last minute for worst incident) Game management abilities (see at PIT in PO in 2004 before Brien's last missed FG for worst incident) "Club Herm" training camps (it looked like he learned his lesson in 2004, and ran a tougher camp that year, but reverted in 2005) I thought he'd learn and improve at the above three, but he never did. Pulled Vinny out of retirement in 2005. Kept Curtis Martin running on one leg for too long in 2005 (remember how Parcells used to sneak up on injured players and jab them on their injured members to see if they were lying?). Kept press at bay by giving them tidbits off record detrimental to the team in 2005. Waited three years to fire Paul Hackett, and it didn't solve anything, so Herm was just as bad. The whole mess surrounding his departure lowered my opinion of him, BUT...take a look at Parcells leaving the NEP and Bellichimp quiting the NYJ. The cardinal rule for NFL coaches is: "you gotta do whatcha gotta do."
I totally disagree. The two collectively were a very bad match. The sum of the parts equals the "hole". A lot of what Bradway did was in action towards Edwards' wishes. Edwards may be a great chearleader, but I think even Young could have beaten him out on Wonderlic. Edwards made Bradway look bad. Bradway was no genius either. I think he lacked backbone when things got difficult. Like I said, the two collectively were a very bad match.
y'all know I was one of the biggest anti-Herm guys on this board...and the reason was I thought he was a big phony from early in his tenure. The whole thing with Shaun Ellis rubbed me the wrong way - how he told the guy to beef up to play inside and when Ellis did what he asked and wasn't successful - Herm threw him under the bus. That was the first of many times Herm threw people under the bus. Cottrell, Hackett, even his buddy Damien Robinson. There were also the inconsistencies - Damien Robinson etc. Worst of all was how he orchestrated his departure from New York. The whole thing was a scam from the start of the season. Everything that happened - from rushing Pennington back, to the lies about having no interest in leaving - the dinners with Carl Peterson - there was so much about his departure that smells... ...one thing about Herm was he always said he was an honest guy - but no matter what you think of his coaching or management, etc. he left us by being dishonest. Herm LIED - everything about the KC deal stinks. I'm very glad he's gone and am happy to have Mangini here, a guy who (so far) seems good to his word. "Trash," I don't know - but if someone did to you what Herm did to the Jets - organization, players, and fans - would it be harsh to call him "Trash?" I'm not sure...? gg
Is Parcells, Groh and BB pieces of Trash? How about the Jets organization that dumped Kotitie and made a scummy little deal with BB and Parcells in order to get Parcells to break his contract with the Pats? The guy was at best in over his head when he was hired, we have no idea what kind of pressure he was under by the Jets? I never bought into most of Herm's BS so maybe since I never felt jilted I don't hate him as much as some others? A lot of things go on in companies and organizations and sometimes people have to extract themselves from a contract in an ugly way in order to properly take care of their families. Personally at the end of the day I didn't think Herm had the brains to pull off what he did, in retrospect, I underestimated him.
-Parcells tried to transition to Bellichick - he never expected Billy boy to bolt. Yes it pisses me off he left when he did, no doubt. -Yes, Bellichick was trash for how he handled the Jets situation and what he did. I don't care what issues he had with Parcells, he was never honest about them and didn't express this until the Patriots came with big bucks. Very trashy exit! -Groh knew the new ownership wasn't going to support him, that's why he left, and I don't blame him one bit. -I have no sympathy for Kotite - he earned his ousture. How the old ownership handled the Parcells thing - very trashy move. So, are these more deflections from what Herm did? Instead of saying the guy was dishonest - more deflections. I agree Herm was in over his head - and getting out was the best thing - but the way he handled it was downright dishonest...and of all people...
Biggs, you had me until you wrote: "sometimes people have to extract themselves from a contract in an ugly way in order to properly take care of their families." If Herm was a childcare provider at $20k per year, had the chance to be a nanny at $35k a year but was required to break a non-compete agreement to make it all happen, then I understand your point. But he was making north of $1.5 mln as part of a contract he negotiated and agreed to before the 2004 season. Either shame on him for signing such a "low" offer in 2004, or shame on him for failing to turn the ship around in 2005 and bargaining from a position of strength. You can't cry poor after a miserable coaching performance. And injuries can be an excuse for not making the playoffs, but not for going 4-12. I know that I, for one, would have respected Herm had he come out and said he didn't want to coach the Jets any longer, that he wanted to move his family to the Midwest, whatever his true reasons were. Afterall, he has the right to work where he wants to work long term. But he makes himself out to be a man of high integrity, a la Tony Dungy, and a man of high integrity would get back to the drawing board, fix the mess, create a high performing team in 2006 and then push the Jets hard for a big-time pay raise at the next contract. He took the alternate route: put pressure on the Jets through media leaks to give him a pay raise after his second losing season in three seasons. Where I work, that wouldn't really fly. In the end, I probably wasn't as smart as you were. I drank more of Herm's Kool-Aid than you did. But that naivety doesn't absolve Herm from the actions he took walking out the door.
Totally agree. The way I look at it is this. You fill my sports section...my TV...with 5 years worth of dribble...and I have to root for you because you coach my team...Im allowed to rip your ass for 3 years. (took off two for good behavior..on my part that is.) Rooting for Herm Edwards was like finding out that the doctor thats performing open heart surgery on you in one hour..has been having sex with your wife. All these posters that want to tell us to get over it...better just get over it themselves. If they want to complain that the guy we picked in the 7th round has too much nose hair...and I have to read that...then leave me alone when I ponder the last 5 years of my life listening to stories about chickens....kool aid...busses...you can punt to win the game....etc.
Herm dumped the Jets before the Jets dumped Herm and in the end both sides were happy with the deal. If Herm had simply said, as you suggested that he didn't want to coach the Jets anymore and wanted to move his family to the Mid West and coach the Chiefs that the Jets would have allowed that? The fact is the Jets wanted him gone and Herm wanted out but he didn't want to be out without a job which is smart and sensible. The deal worked for both parties. Don't over think the PR BS.
The Jets wanted him gone because of the shennanigans he was pulling at the tail end of the 2005 season. There were no indications -- as far as anyone outside the bunker can know -- that the Jets were primed to dump Herm after the 2005 season until he started floating the idea about being underpaid and decided to use KC as leverage. If Woody & Co. wanted him gone sooner, I don't think he would have been paraded in front of every West Side Stadium event as the face of the organization. The Jets were ready to give Herm a pass on 2005 -- stupidly -- until he started playing games. And then they figured he wasn't worth the trouble and dumped him as you suggest. And if Herm really wanted out from the start, then -- again -- shame on him for abandoning ship and taking the "easy" way out. It was a dishonorable end to the relationship.
