Wow, you added a lot to the conversation, Bro. Any time you want to match wits with me on the New York Jets or football in general, you let me know. Call me out, make a thread, whatever. Bring it, big shot.
Any time you want a piece, champ, you know where to look too. While you're at it, I'm still waiting for you to explain to me the "hell" we'll be in until 2010 from the Herm/Bradway regime.
Most of the Jet's losses in the Chad era have been very winnable going into the 4th quarter (e.g. this year Bears 10-0, Cleveland 20-13, Indy 31-28.) We lose that kind of game regularly because Chad does not have the arm to force the issue deep. Here's the last chance drive against the Colts with under a minute to play: 1st and 10 at NYJ 2 47) (Shotgun) C.Pennington pass short right to T.Dwight to NYJ 11 for 9 yards (T.Jennings, K.Hayden). 2nd and 1 at NYJ 11 26) (No Huddle, Shotgun) C.Pennington pass short middle to J.Cotchery to NYJ 25 for 14 yards (C.June). Timeout #3 by NYJ at 00:19. 1st and 10 at NYJ 25 19) (Shotgun) C.Pennington pass short right to L.Coles ran ob at NYJ 32 for 7 yards (K.Hayden). 2nd and 3 at NYJ 32 14) (No Huddle, Shotgun) C.Pennington pass incomplete deep right to J.Cotchery (K.Hayden). 3rd and 3 at NYJ 32 08) (Shotgun) C.Pennington pass short middle to L.Washington to IND 35 for 33 yards [D.Freeney]. Lateral to L.Coles to IND 35 for no gain. FUMBLES, RECOVERED by IND at IND 35. Chad finally heaves one up with less than 15 seconds to go in the game. His waste of the first 35 seconds of the drive? Three very short under passes including one in the middle of the field that forced the Jet's final timeout. Would any other QB in the NFL have won on that drive? Probably not, but they'd have gone out swinging and trying to throw a knockout punch. Chad went out jabbing and weaving as the clock ticked down in the 12th round. That's purely a case of not enough arm strength to even make a legitimate attempt in a hopeless cause (14 yards over the middle to the JETS 25 to Jerrico Cotchery with 19 seconds left? Are you kidding me?) Here's Chad against the Bears: 1st and 10 at NYJ 20 (1:43) (Shotgun) C.Pennington pass incomplete deep left to L.Coles. 2nd and 10 at NYJ 20 (1:37) (No Huddle, Shotgun) C.Pennington pass incomplete deep left to L.Coles. PENALTY on CHI-M.Anderson, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at NYJ 20 - No Play. 2nd and 5 at NYJ 25 (1:31) (No Huddle, Shotgun) C.Pennington pass short right to T.Dwight to NYJ 33 for 8 yards (R.Manning, C.Tillman). 1st and 10 at NYJ 33 (1:20) (No Huddle) C.Pennington spiked the ball to stop the clock. 2nd and 10 at NYJ 33 (1:17) (No Huddle, Shotgun) C.Pennington pass incomplete short middle to J.Cotchery. 3rd and 10 at NYJ 33 (1:13) (Shotgun) C.Pennington pass short left to T.Dwight to NYJ 40 for 7 yards (N.Vasher). 4th and 3 at NYJ 40 50) (No Huddle, Shotgun) C.Pennington pass short left to T.Dwight to NYJ 45 for 5 yards (R.Manning). 1st and 10 at NYJ 45 35) (No Huddle) C.Pennington spiked the ball to stop the clock. 2nd and 10 at NYJ 45 35) (Shotgun) C.Pennington sacked at NYJ 39 for -6 yards (A.Ogunleye). CHI-A.Ogunleye was injured during the play. He is Out. Timeout #1 by CHI at 00:22. 3rd and 16 at NYJ 39 22) (Shotgun) C.Pennington pass incomplete short right to J.McCareins. 4th and 16 at NYJ 39 14) (Shotgun) C.Pennington pass incomplete short right to L.Coles. We're down 10 points here with less than two minutes to go in the game and they call two token deep passes to start things off. Then they just decide to let Chad be Chad and he begins the laborious process of moving the Jets upfield in a short controlled passing game. Game over at this point, BTW. As usual Chad takes only what the defense offers him as a low risk play (2nd and 10 at the Jet's 33 and Chad throw a pass incomplete - short middle to Cotchery with no timeouts and 1:17 to go in the game, are you kidding me?) The Jet's offense sucked all day against the bears but that last 2 minute drive was pitiful, at no point on that drive did anybody watching the game think the Jets had a prayer of even scoring the obligatory FG to set up a hopeless onsides kick with less than a minute to go in the game. My point is that when the chips are really down and you're going to likely lose the game is when you see how a team really is under the surface. All of the brilliance and all of the flaws come out and get highlighted for everybody to see, because there's no bullshit left - you either put up or you lose. Chad has nothing to put up when he has to get points fast and the defense knows it. Then all of the Wizard of Oz feinting and trickery means nothing because the only question is whether or not he can get the ball down the field and score quickly now and then when he absolutely has to, and he can't. Going up long off of play-action on first and second down? Any competent QB can do that. Having to throw underneath to complete a pass EVERY TIME when the defense is in a deep zone? That's just weak. Don't you remember the times in the Parcells and Edwards years when a good QB cut the Jets to pieces walking down the field at will in the 4th quarter and beating their defense for a key score when it was needed late? I can't remember EVER seeing Chad move the ball at will in the 4th quarter and get that score we so desperately needed. It's just not in his repertoire because it requires a live arm to force the issue now and then even when the coverage is tight.
Prior to this year, in my opinion, the knock on Chad was the lack of the deep ball. But this year, I saw a distinct inability fire the ball really anywhere on the field (even in the 5 - 15 yard range.). There were floaters aplenty, many were effective and nearly all were scary. Furthermore, Chad's accuracy definitely took a hit this season. Sure he made some amazing throws, but all good NFL QBs do that. In years past, even if he was throwing softballs they were right on the money. This season there were a number of games where I thought that Chad just wasn't on target all 60 minutes.
Not sure how much I agree here, but even if you are correct, this new "inaccuracy" may have been due to the shoulder surgeries which he was still recovering from. Next year I expect his throwing to be better.
We got the ball at our own 2 w/ 47 secs left and you are blaming that on Chad's arm? He took what was there, he could have thrown downfield for the sake of throwing downfield only to be intercepted but the D's were playing deep. Again, how can you expect to get something downfield in this situation? I am glad you brought up the Indy and Chi games as both were lost mainly due to idiotic coaching decisions. Against Indy going for it on 4th and G from the 3 and against Chi kicking the OSK to start the 2nd half in a 0-0 game. Chad's arm didn't make those plays but chad's arm kept u in the game vs. Indy. 2002: threw about a 50 yd pass to Coles to set up GW FG against Miami in 13-10 win. 2003: Threw 2 TDs in final 10 mins to send Giant game to OT, set us up for GW FGA but it was botched. 2003: down 21-10 to Oak in the 4th then 24-16 he led us for the TD and 2 pt conv to send i to OT where we won it. 2003: Down 10-6 to jacksonville who had held our O in check all game long Chad leads us on a 94 yd TD drive to win it. 2004: After SD cut into our 27-7 lead to make it 27-21 Chad leads us 70 yds in 6 plays to score a TD to end SD's hopes. 2004: Down 14-13 to Buf Chad leads us on a 60 yard drive to set up the GW FG. 2004: Down 14-3 then 14-9 to start the 4th qtr Chad lead us to 2 Tds to win it. 2004 playoffs at SD: leading us to the GW FG. 2005 vs Miami: Up 10-7 after Miami scored he went 7 for 7 on a TD scoring drive to ice it. 2006 at Ten: ten ties up the game at 16 and Chad leads us right down the field for the TD and thw win. 2006 at Mia: Mia ties ti and he leads us right down the field for the tying FG. Don't act like he has never come through in late game situations b/c he has on numerous occassions.
Junc, you're missing the point. it doesn't matter if the ball was on the 2 against Indy, or if the coaching decisions were terrible vs. Indy and Chicago. the point is, Chad doesn't have the arm to even ATTEMPT to comeback quickly. i've seen plenty of QB's lose games but go down swinging with long completions when time is running out. again, Chad doesn't instill that confidence, because come Playoff time, when we're down, he can't comeback when we desperately need it. cheers
He's done it many times before, if we would have had a decent return instead of screwing it up I think we would have tied that game but at the 2 we had no shot and i don't care if Elway was the QB.
Most QBs in that spot throw underneath because the defense leaves it open, rarely do they go deep successfully. That's why every QB and every team suddenly looks good in the 2:00 offense, even if they sucked wind the whole game. Chad is no different than any other QB in that regard. Unless you're throwing Hail Marys into the end zone it's more about accuracy and managing the clock than arm strength. And if you're throwing Hail Marys you're probably toast anyway.
Never gonna happen. Chad has 2 throws.....long floaters and quick 10 yarders. The harder the angle the worse he is. Sometimes you need to zip it between a couple of defenders....he ain't gonna do it. He's smart, and he's summarily better than average, just not in the areas of arm strength. He is what he is. I think he's going to make an excellent QB coach, but he needs a little more zip to play from a hole.
