Interesting numbers. I think we all kinda knew deep down that trailing in the 4th was a death sentence for this team, but that actually spells it out. Lots and lots of defensive breakdowns, or teams stacking the box forcing CP to beat them? With a solid O-line and a HOF running back for most of his career, there really arn't to many other places to lay blame. In all fairness, however, think the offensive schemes we were using probably put him at a disadvantage in come from behind situations. To this day I still think Hacket got somewhat of a bum rap. I always believed his offensive schemes we're based around what CP was capable of doing. Thats why we never really went deep, and coulden't spread the field. If you can't do those 2 things and you don't have an explosive playmaker, your screwed.
I'm so sick of this argument. Everyone is trying to simplify the most complicated, difficult position in sports. It takes many qualities to be a successful NFL QB. I also think this argument about Pennington is premature. Time will tell, as it always does. I think next year will be a key year for Pennington and the Jets. Will an offseason without rehab and him being two years out from his injury make a difference? Is Clemens ready? Who knows. All I know is this - this is a very grey argument and people try to make it black or white. Those who say Pennington is incapable of winning in the NFL have been proven wrong. Whether he can take the next step and get the Jets deeper in the playoffs, I just don't know. There are too many variables. I think that a wait and see attitude is the only choice we have or else we can argue this over and over and it becomes like banging your head against the wall. Nobody is going to convince me or any other Pennington supporter during his offseason that he can't win in this league and nothing will convince those who don't like him that he can (unless and until he does win a title). I do think the Jets are in a good position right now at QB, however. If Pennington is the best option in the coming years, they have a proven playoff caliber QB who should play better as the team around him improves. If Clemens is what the FO thought, he becomes an option in a year or two if he is better than Pennington. As for the QBs that are left in the playoffs, other than Brady (who stunk on Sunday), the other three have faults and spotty pasts. Brees was thought to be a bust and SD drafted Rivers (go with me here and let's just pass over the Eli Manning stuff) to replace him. Then he goes out and puts together two great years. He is coming off an arm injury this year and nobody expected the year he has had. Is he that much different than Pennington? I don't see it. Manning is a proven big game choker and this year's playoffs have not changed that yet. One TD and 5 picks prove that. The Colts have won their first two games for three reasons - their defense has really picked it up, they played two of the most inept offenses I have ever seen in an NFL playoff game, and they have the best clutch kicker in NFL history. Grossman is Grossman and is a train wreck in the making. The thing is, it is hard to filter through the NFL QBs and come up with a consensus as to who has the goods and who doesn't. Brady is the exception.
Come on vision..nobody is saying Montana had a gun. I just dont remember receivers being followed by priests ready to give their last rights when Montana threw a sideline pass. I think the major disagreement is the guys that dont like Chad just have in their head what a perfect or suitable QB should be able to do. It starts with being able to throw a sideline pass without his receiver being drilled into oblivion. The Chad defenders are ok with that or pretend not to see it. The ditractors feel the blood from their head rush to their feet and fall flat on their face..only to open their eyes in disbelief that the ball still hasnt arrived.
Please consider that Pennington has given the Jets a lead or put them in position to win games on numerous other occasions since 2002 only to have the defense or a kicker blow it. 2002: Cleveland KC Chicago (Chrebet fumble) 2003 NYG (down 14 in 4th quarter) Miami 2004 Pittsburgh 2005 Jacksonville 2006 Cleveland (bad call)
Your absolutly correct. It's not very often that you can lay blame on a single player for a loss. CP is no different. At the same time, if you can only count the number of times it was definitively due to something other then Chads inabality to pick up huge chunks of yardage without someone else making a great play for him on one hand, then there may be an issue that needs to be looked at.
Brees had a rep coming out of Purdue as a strong-armed QB who would do well in a pro set offense. The question about him was his size and whether a QB who stood just over 6' tall officially (actually just a tad under 6' unofficially) would be able to make the jump to the pros where the defensive lineman are taller and blitz schemes are designed to obscure the QB's throwing lanes. It took him a couple of seasons to adjust and then he was just fine, both in SD and now in NO. The injury was what it was. He was either going to be able to throw hard again after the surgery or not. Obviously the answer is he can at this point. Brees and Chad just aren't similar QB's at all. They throw differently and they have different strengths and weaknesses. There really are no other QB's in the NFL that make more of their living off of their mind and less off of their arm than Chad. The last guy I can think of who really resembled Chad was Rich Gannon, although he was a somewhat upgraded version of Chad, mainly because he had another 3 or 4 years experience over what Chad has now when he hit his prime and he also was a very mobile QB.
As much as I enjoyed and actually agreed with much of this post jw, I think the defenders are missing the point of what actually gets under the skin of the those that dont like Chad. Its what every successful QB must have. The ability to stretch a defense. I dont really care that Montana had a weak arm or this guy didnt have a strong arm. Chad Pennington is one of the few QBs in the history of the NFL where teams treated him like they were playing against Navy. I have seen teams stack lines in the past because of lack of respect for accuracy..never before because they had no fear about being beat long.
Just FYI. Several of those games were big leads that Chad and the Jets lost because they couldn't put any points on the board when they had too. You know why we lost to Pittsburgh in 2004? Because the OFFENSE could not score ANY points at all in the second half. One lousy interception return for a TD was all of our second half points there. And that comes back to the QB as the primary culprit.
I hope that is not criticising Pennington or the offense really. The offense was hancuffed with the playcalls.
I have not read anything in this thread aside from the above post. (I'll read the full damage later.) To me, Philip Rivers played better than Chad Pennington played in these playoffs. Rivers was 14 of 32, but his receivers were dropping passes left and right. Rivers put his team in position to win. His teammates consistently let him down.
man, are you ever dense!!! if you can't see the limitations of cp's weak arm, then your not very knowledgeable about football itself!!!!! you should try taking up golf as a spectator, surely that's a game slow enough for you to learn and comprehend.
for the Chad supporters, this is the crux of it. look, i really like Pennington in that he's a natural born leader who never says die, and he's a student of the game who probably pours more of his mind into football than any other player (except Peyton Manning). but that doesn't change the fact he has a weak arm and gets rattled against aggressive D's or D's that heavily defend the sideline routes (i.e. Bears). when you have that kind of deficiency, you can only go so far. the inability to stretch Defenses is a major problem. for those of you who say "we don't have any burners anyway," like ItalianSeafood (not trying to call you out, just recall you saying it); this is the chicken or the egg problem -- do we not have burners for Chad to throw to, or do we not acquire burners because Chad can't get them the ball, therefore no use for them? if it's the latter, then that proves Chad limits the Offense. i believe that's the case. the Chad supporters won't. and it sucks because none of us (unless we work for the CS) will know. cheers
montana's arm wasn't the strongest in the league but, it was nowhere as weak as cp's. you seem to imply their arm strengths were simular, bogus arguement. montana still had twice the arm of cp.
Montana had a middle of the pack arm. When he was playing I *never* heard a commentator suggest that his arm was at all inadequate. With Chad the questions about arm strength were in his draft profile on all the major sites: does this guy have an NFL caliber arm? That's what they were all saying. That basic question has remained now for 6+ seasons although it is couched a bit differently: today it's "can he make all the throws?"
i really don't get the Montana comparisons. i don't think anyone is saying Montana's arm was strong. rather, it was enough. but it definitely wasn't as weak as Chad's. this isn't even the point, whether Montana's arm was as weak as Chad's. and even if it was, whoopie, y'all named one player who's arm strength was comparable (even that isn't correct). what does that tell you? Montana got the job done, Chad hasn't. if San Fran was down, everyone knew not to leave early because he could comeback. Chad doesn't instill that confidence. if it's a close game (tied or down 3-7 points) i believe; more than that, i know we can't march down the field twice with little time left. Chad will be 31 yrs old. how many chances do you want to give him? the rest of the team is getting younger and improving while Chad is getting older and staying the same. eventually the Jets will cut their ties which will be a sad, but necessary, day. cheers
Actually it was about a 25 yard pass in the air. And nobody was stating that Pennington is great at "stretching ther field".
You give him as many chances as it takes as long as he is the best option. Right now that is the bottomline, he is the best option we have, despite the limitations he is the best option. Jets fans should know as well as anyone how hard it is to find a QB that can win consistently.. Hopefully Clemens can develop and be the QB that everyone hopes he can be but until he does Chad is the man & our best option to finally win a SB.. Whether or not he can win the SB remains to be seen but to say he can't because of a lack of arm strength is absurd. He has already proven if he is at the top of his game mentally that he can overcome his limitations, it is when he is not that he has troubles.
