There's nothing wrong with partying in the off-season. I'm sure Ryan and Flacco did and will do their share. Fact is, Leinart had two great receivers to throw to after having 1 year under his belt learning the system in a pass-happy offense. I mean...you can't get a more perfect set up than that. But I have nothing against Sanchez, if he's as good as advertised, then we should get him. It's just that they overhype this 'NFL-ready' style offense so much, I just don't buy it.
Sanchez is a little different from both of those guys. Both Palmer and Leinart were pure pocket passers with little to no ability to throw on the run or real mobility. Sanchez's arm isnt' as strong as Palmer's. But otherwise, I'd lean him more towards Palmer as a prospect than Leinart. I'm still confused as to what made Matt Leinart so great as a prospect.
Sanchez is a little different from both of those guys. Both Palmer and Leinart were pure pocket passers with little to no ability to throw on the run or real mobility. Sanchez's arm isnt' as strong as Palmer's. But otherwise, I'd lean him more towards Palmer as a prospect than Leinart. I'm still confused as to what made Matt Leinart so great as a prospect. His arm was meh, his accuracy was OK but not deadly, his size was great, he had arm injuries in the past, and he just looked like an immature douche.
I never hated Chad I just thought he was done as an elite QB after two shoulder surgeries. Mediocre arm to begin with but very smart with great play fakes. Well below average NFL arm after the surgery with less effective play fakes because he has shied away from expossing his back to the D. I really don't have a personal love or hate for Chad, I respect what his done with limited talent but I don't think he is by any means a great QB who can make big time plays in tough situations the kind of plays that ultimately have to be made to win big against big time competition. You and I disagree about Clemens showing flashes. He has a far better release than either Foley or Nagel, clearly is smarter than Nagel and Foley might well have turned into a pretty good NFL QB if he didn't get hurt?
I don't think you quite understood my post. I'm not saying he's clearly our best shot at QB. In fact, I voted for Clemens. I'm defending those that did vote for Ratliff. I'm just saying that based on his performance he at least deserves the opportunity to compete for the job. It might be a long shot, but he at least deserves a chance.
This is a semantic trick. First of all, we are talking about developing a Qb. No one is saying as of today that Clemens is an SB Qb. And there you go again with the Chad standard. I thought you thought Chad was/is a great Qb. Others have directly argued to you that the Flacco and Ryan cases were not analogous to Clemens's, and you are right back to pretending they are. As for Ben, do you not know the circumstances there? I mentioned 07 ftr since that was not a case where Clemens "had his chance" and was beaten out. It makes the point that he hasn't had all that many chances. I count one - coming in for clean up duty when Chad had already ruined the 07 season. No OL, no real running game, a beaten up receiver corps, and inadequate prep work. Not much of a chance. Look, I get that you will never like Clemens because he was the one who came in and replaced Chad and won more games than Chad did. But it is just incorrect to say Clemens has had many opportunities to succeed.
I don't know either, but I wanted him. I was pissed when we picked Brick, but I am glad now that I'm no GM. I remember hearing from scouts on TV on his size, accuracy and leadership. Lacked a little bit of arm strength, but like Tom Brady, that would get better over time. What I vividly remember them beating me over the head with most was the "Most NFL-Ready QB in this Draft" slogan and his "smarts" in reading the defense. That's mainly why I can't buy into this hype. I've seen highlights of Sanchez and he looks good, but, so did Leinart. That's the only reason why I'm cautious.
I'm not saying he's our starter. I'm saying that based on how he performed he deserves an opportunity to compete in the offseason. In fact, I voted for Clemens. But I do think he and Ratliff should get the chance to win the starting job along with a veteran or rookie QB who isn't on the team yet. My post was to defend those that did vote for Ratliff. You're very correct. It was just preseason. But he did standout against lower-level players, just as many college QBs who later start in the NFL standout on a field where very players actually make it to the NFL. You have to start somewhere. His outstanding performance certainly entitles him the opportunity to compete for the job in the offseason. For all we know, he could be the real deal and a diamond in the rough (such as a Cassell, Brady or Romo) or just another camp arm that got lucky for one offseason. In either case, all I'm saying is he has to be in the mix this offseason.
The problem is there is some downside to running a competition. Splitting reps, maybe not developing a play book that takes into account the strengths and weaknesses of your Qb, there are others.
Sure. This is true. But the difference with 2009 team has to be that it is much more run-oriented, which would take a lot of pressure off the QB. Just curious though, what is your take on who the 2009 Jets starting QB should be?
Foley's career didn't end from injuries. He was hurt long enough for Vinny to take his job but it wasn't like he could never play again. Even there, he had some games where he put up points over a few years and looked like he could play, he had trouble staying on the field. Nagle had a great debut but was a rockhead. What has Clemens done to show any flashes? I'm trying to recall some plays and I'm struggling. Early on he kept some drives going running, but overall he seems inaccuarate and has happy feet.
Another thing about Clemens is his contract situation. This is his contract year coming up. How can the Jets go into another pre-season and not find out what they need to in order to determine whether to keep him or not? If they don't do that, they certainly can't give him anything more than a one year extension. The other option is to cut him, without knowing better whether he might succeed.
Fair point about the running game aspect. Yes, the Jets SHOULD run more with these players, and that should take some pressure off whoever is Qb. On who should be Qb, I have said before I am torn between getting a vet or letting one of these guys have a chance. Last year I thought they might have considered drafting a Qb with a first round pick, and to develop them. I've kind of changed my mind there, since I have little confidence in the Jets both picking the right guy and grooming him. The grooming issue also is problematic with letting either Ratliff or Clemens be the annointed one. But perhaps that can be resolved if the right HC comes in with a dedication to developing a young Qb. As between Ratliff and Clemens, I lean toward Clemens, just because Ratliff has so little to base choosing him on. Absent that, I would bring in another vet, but of course as I said this morning this will all be moot if Favre comes back.
I don't know about great, but he has proven the ability to win games and get teams to the playoffs that nobody thought would get there--repeatedly. So if Clemens is going to be better, wouldn't that mean he needs to be a Super Bowl caliber QB? That's the only place to go beyond the playoffs. That's what we're shooting for, right? That's why three playoff appearances with Chad weren't good enough, right? So that's what we're talking about, otherwise why bother? I don't see how that is a "semantic trick." That is your and their argument, I disagree, that doesn't mean I'm "pretending". Every team every year is a slightly different circumstance. The 2006 Jets QB job was a winnable one if he was good enough. Pennington was coming off two surgeries, the other guys were no good, the management was brand new, had a blank check and an excuse to lose with a young guy, he was the young guy they drafted. They placed him in an open competition for the job, he didn't win it. That doesn't mean you write him off or I'm saying he's no good, but you guys keep saying he didn't have a chance and that is simply not the case, he did have a chance. I'm giving you examples of other rookies who have won jobs. Agreed, he was on a bad team. He did have the chance to play half a season with no pressure and carry that into this camp to show he was ready to take the job. Once again, he didn't. So that's three years on the team, at least two chances if you want to roll late 07/off season 08 into one chance. Still not bad and still bucks this idea that he hasn't had a chance. There you go speaking for me again. If he wears Jets green and white and lines up behind center, I'm rooting for him to do well. I just haven't seen anything from him to make me think he's that good. And as I've just illustrated to you, he's had a couple of chances in the short time he's been here. Also, how do you figure he's won more games than Chad? Chad has almost as many Comeback Player of the Year awards as Clemens has career wins.
What has he shown? A lightning quick release and a nice live arm. His footwork sucks. I'm assuming he can improve it. Most young QB's struggle. Clemens next year will be the same age Chad was in 02 when he finally started to show something. Foley's had two major injuries and was 29 and over paid and couldn't stay on the field. That didn't sit with Parcells plans once Vinny came in and proved his worth.
I wouldn't draft Sanchez. He doesn't read defense well, he basically is picking a receiver pre-snap, staring him down and making the throw. He's accurate and has a strong arm and great receivers to throw to so it usually works. I don't think it translates well to the NFL. If Bradford does declare after this season I'd make a strong push to trade back into the top 10. Only two teams in the top 10 are likely to take a QB and I think one might trade for Cassel so we might be able to get Bradford or Stafford around the 8th pick.
I can't see the Pats letting go of Cassel. Brady has a major issue and may never come back to near what he was if he comes back at all.
I'm with you here. Clemens and Ratliff have to get a shot to win the job. But either a veteran QB (Not Favre) or a rookie (In the first or second round) need to be brought in. And I'd like to emphasize that if they pick a veteran QB, IT CAN'T BE FAVRE.
