That's a good and informative breakdown, thanks. I don't know about the best we've ever had, I think I'd rather have John Hall making a big kick for me than Leahy, and Hall had far superior range.
I'm not sure how to define big kicks (or where to get the data for that), so we'll have to leave that alone. Overall, Leahy was much better inside the 40 (93.0% in the Meadowlands years versus 84.8%); Hall was better from 40-49 (57.6% versus 52.8%); and Hall was much better from 50+ (50% versus 35.7%). Since 70-80% of all FGs are from inside the 40, I guess I put more stock in those kicks (and certainly more than kicks from 50+, of which even Hall has only averaged 3 per season).
0-10 and 5-14 looks like a huge difference but basically Pat had one good year of kicking 50+ yd Fgs. In '85 he was 3 of 5 but the rest of his meadowalnds career he was 2 of 9. From 40-49 in the meadowlands years his % was LOWER than Shea. From '74-'83 he was 39-70(56%) from 40-49 while from '84-'91 he was 28-53(53%) from 40-49. I agree it was harder to kick in his era and harder to kick at Shea but you just have the Shea years vs. the Meadowlands years- we don't have a breakdown of where those kicks were kicked from. Were they on the road or at home?
Agreed, although i would have to cover my eyes. Anytime the game was on the line and hall came on to kick, i lost 5 years off my life.
I always felt Ok w/ Hall on GW kicks, it was the kicks that could basically clinch games for us that I knew he would miss. Like if we were up 6 and attempted a FG to push it to 9 so you know the opponent has to score twice he'd always miss that kick but on GW kicks I felt good. This may not be 100% accurate but this is what I remember from hall on agme tying or winning kicks: 1997: Beat Baltimore in OT 1998: Beat KC on last play 1999: Beat Dallas in last minutes 2000: Beat Miami on OT Missed tying Kick against Detroit 2001: Beat Carolina in final minutes Beat Oakland to get us into the playoffs in final minute 2002: Tying FG vs. Cle blocked Beat Miami w/ GW FG in final mins So that's 7 of 9 made w/ one of the misses a bloked kick.
Everything I wanted to say again, junc. The 1997 and 1998 games were in the rain, too. The Oakland 2001 kick was with the clock running, season on the line and from a healthy distance. Probably the only kicker in Jet history who would make that one, not including Nugent, who we haven't seen enough of yet in that spot.
The '97 Raven GW kick actually wasn't in the rain. It poured all game long but the skies opened up and it was sunny in OT.
I'll take your word for it, I watched that ame from a bar in Vegas--got laid that night, too. :up: I love the Internet. Where else can you get an in-depth Pat Leahy discussion on a Saturday morning in March. March of 2007.
I don't have home/away splits, but when the numbers change that dramatically when he is 33 years old and the only thing that has changed is where he played half of the games (a place that was assuredly the hardest stadium to kick in in the NFL), it seems a pretty safe bet that the increase in accuracy didn't happen on the road. Quoting his Shea-era stats and comparing them to Hall's is simply unreasonable, especially when you see that he was a better kicker than Turner, the guy the Jets had for their best teams at Shea (and someone JWN swore by). Cherry picking out his best year from 50+ to make a point is also unreasonable, particularly when you're talking about one or two kicks per year. A much more sensible analysis of the data is that (not surprisingly), as he got older he lost some of his ability from long distance. In fact, his only really bad year was his last, 1991, when he was 40 years old. From 1984-1990, his FG percentages were 92.5% (inside the 40), 56.3% (40-49), and 41.7% (50+). Hall's were 84.8%, 57.6%, and 47.4%, respectively. Other than in his last season, Leahy was far better inside the 40, just as good from 40-49, and only slightly worse from 50+. In fact, if you analyze these proportions statistically, Hall is (marginally) statistically significantly worse than Leahy from inside the 40, and each of the 40-49 and 50+ proportions are not remotely close to statistically significantly different from each other. The Jets attempted many more FGs in Hall's years than in Leahy's years, but there is actually no objective evidence that Hall was better at longer distances than Leahy in the Meadowlands years until Leahy's last year, while Leahy was demonstrably better from inside the 40. In this post you said the following about an 83% percentage inside the 40: Under non-Shea-like conditions I agree, and since Hall's percentage was 84.8%, you obviously think that he wasn't a very good kicker on the kicks that comprise the bulk of attempts.
Yes, it was sunny in OT. Junc, two of Leahy's 50+ yard FGs were in the same game at NE in 1985..thought that was a strange stat considering he only hit 5 in 18 years
Wind, maybe? I remember it was an October game, but that stadium wasn't exactly a haven for kickers. It was open on both ends and of course their weather is always unpredictable.
