Couldn't agree more, I want him to stay a Jet as much as the next guy... but according to the report yesterday, his agent (and I do believe this is more on his agent than on him) is asking for an average of 6 million a year. The list of backs that make an average of 6 mil a year, is reserved for true workhorse/high production backs and highly overpaid first round rookies... Here's some Running back contracts that I looked up just to do some comparisons Every down backs- Tomlinson: 8 years- 60 mil, avg = 7.5 mil/yr Portis: 8 years- 50.5 mil, avg = 6.3 mil/yr Larry Johnson: 6 years- 45 mil, avg = 7.5 mil/yr Peterson: 5 years- 40 mil, avg = 8 mil/yr Change of pace backs: Felix Jones: 5 years- 10.5 mil, avg = 2.1 mil/yr Sproles: Franchise tagged 1 year- 6.621 mil (just threw this in the mix because I know it was referenced at some point, I feel like a one year contract is irrelevant to compare to, we will be signing LW for at least 4 years I'm sure... ) Ladell Betts: 5 years- 11 mil, avg = 2.2 mil/yr He needs a contract upgrade, no doubt, he's getting paid scrub money and nearing the end of his rookie contract. He doesn't have the body to be an every down back, but he is more explosive, and worth more than your average change of pace back. If we don't re-sign Jones (which I wouldn't mind at this point to be honest) he will be getting quite a few more carries, probably 50-50-ish with Greene. I think this is what we should aim for... Leon Washington: 5 years 20million (ish) , which would be an average of 4 million a year. He's vital to our offense, so he deserves more money, which if I remember correctly is about 535k/year at the moment... He's certainly worth more to us than that, but he he should not be getting a Clinton Portis like deal...
Dude is a threat everytime he touches the ball. He busted huge runs last year. He is a player the Jets should lock up. Barley stellar as a RB? You cannot be serious. Shotty just needs to give him the ball more this year. If he had the touches TJ had one could only imagine the numbers he would produce.
Unfortunately in the NFL you can't just say oh he had X number of carries and Y average yards per carry... and go oh if we increase X then Y must increase by the same proportions.... In a perfect world: 10 carries x 5 YPC = 50 so 100 carries x 5YPC = 500 But It doesn't work that way in the NFL, especially when you have an explosive burst player like Leon... Leon is a hard worker, with a good body.. and who knows, maybe he COULD produce Chris Johnson type numbers if we gave him the same amount of carries... but one of the better arguments about Leon, is what makes him such an explosive player, is bringing in that pair of fresh fast legs after TJ had pounded away and made the defense tired. I'm all for giving him the ball more... but I don't think he could carry the ball 20-30 times a game like some backs do and still keep his level of success. I'd worry too if he'd be able to take that many hits a game...
It's nice to see Leon saying all the right things when things are okay, but once he gets a number he doesn't like he cries just like every other player. You can't pay big money for a part-time player. Yes, he has gamebreaking potential, but it's not like he is on the field for 70 plays a game. Tell him to shut up, let him play out his contract and tag him.
Sorry if I missed this in a post above, but certainly LW is worth Westbrook money. Does he want more than Westbrook makes?
Where does everyone get this..."Leon is a small back-Not an every down back" type of stuff from? Yeah, he's only 5'8 but he's also 202 pounds. M.Jones-Drew is 5'7, 208 pounds. Willie Parker, 5'10, 209 pounds. Joseph Addai, 5'11, 214 He's short but he's build solid. He's not tall and lanky. He's short and compact which is a plus for an explosive back. Leon has only had two games during his 3 year career where the coaching staff has actually let him rush the rock 20 or more times. He made the best of it. Both games were as a rookie back in 06. He can carry the work load. @ The Jaguars: 23 attempts, 101 yards, 4.1 ypc, 0 TD's. Vs the Lions: 20 attempts, 129 yards, 6.5 average, 2 TD's. During those two games he put up 43 attempts, 230 yards, 5.3 average yards per carry, 2 TD's. I agree with everything you said in your post fr0zensm0ke and I'm not knocking it in any type of way but I just had to agree to disagree on this whole "Leon is to small to carry the work load". Now...If he does become our #1 back, it's a no brainer...Someone else will have to return kicks. Brad Smith? Stuckey?
I never said he definitely DOESN"T have the body to be an every down back... every player is different, he just doesn't have the typical body for it, and that's a big risk to take for 6 million a year. Also none of the guy you mentioned are dominant backs... Darelle Revis Actually.. I would prefer Smith/Clowney over Stuckey though as our #2 guy. I also remember reading somewhere that S Jim Leonard was a return threat... I didn't really know the guy's name before this season, even after watching a handful of Ravens games, so I have no idea.
Brian Westbrook 5'10, 203 pounds. Leon Washington 5'8, 202 pounds. And Maurice Jones-Drew is a pretty dominant back... 197 rushing attempts last year for 824 yards and 12 TD's with an average of 4.2 yards per carry. He also had 62 catches for 565 yards with 2 TD's. In 3 years, Jones-Drew has only missed one game. 47 games, 530 attempts, 2,533 yards, 4.8 average yards per carry with 34 TD's. It's sad how they were drafted in the same year, same types of explosive talents, but yet...Leon has only had 298 rushing attempts while Jones-Drew has had 530 attempts... I think it's about time Rex Ryan and company take advantage of this kids ability as a back with Shonn Greene as the change of pace, power type of back.
I'm all for giving him the ball more times per game... My main point is, we don't KNOW if he can handle 300 carries a season... and I don't think we should pay the guy the money of an every-down back, when he might not be that guy.
He may not be an every down back but he does just as much for this team along with our offensive attack. He's one of the best kick returners in the game, he gives us great field position just about every time. He's also a threat as a change of pace back because he can take a screen pass to the house on just about any play, he can turn something out of nothing into a huge gain, he's a great 3rd down back because he can catch outta the backfield...He can do so many different things that most every down backs cant do. He's worth every penny. Lets not forget that this league is not a league where RB's in the 90's such as Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Jerome Bettis, Eddie George and Faulk could all carry the work load without a talented #2 RB backing them up. NFL D's are full of animals on the Defensive side of the ball and thats the reason why this is now a 2 back league. Just about every team has two really good backs and thats the reason why I dont consider Leon Washington as a "Backup" because he's a huge part of our 1-2 Punch and Shonn Greene (If he works out) along with Leon can be our 1-2 Punch for years to come out of the backfield.
With T.J., Leon, and Greene, we are going to have a top 3 backfield in the league this year. I truly believe Greene is going to be a beast. Since we drafted him I have watched tons of film and him and the guy is legit.
I would hate to see Leon used as an every down back. His skill set doesn't include pounding on the defense to wear them down, which is going to be a key in this offense. He should, however, get 15+ carries per game. The best backfields in today's NFL, however, are shared. Even Chester Taylor comes in on 3rd downs in Minnesota. I wouldn't mind seeing Leon as our primary back, paired with Shonn Greene and a 3rd back, but he needs to be somewhat fresh to be at his most effective. You can pull Felix off that list above, seeing as he's on his rookie contract, and I feel the Betts comparison is weak given everything Leon brings to the game. However, you are dead on with the Sproles argument. Leon seems to be seeking a number commensurate with the franchise tag on Sproles, but it's unlikely that Darren signs for more than $4 - 4.5 million per season. I had expected Leon to sign for the same. Leonhard will more than likely take over the PR duties. That's not Leon's strong suit, and will free him up to handle more of the carries. I don't want to see Leon taken off of KORs, nor will he be. On a side note, not sure if I said it before, but welcome to the board.
No way are the coaches going to let Revis return kicks. You would be crazy to allow him to return kicks and risk injury. Leonhard or Dwight Lowery can return kicks just fine.
If you are advocating a two-back system, I don't see how you go on to say that Leon should be paid RB1 / every down starter money.
Missed this part. I'd agree, that $4 - 5 million per is the ideal range to sign Leon for, but I wouldn't set Portis as a benchmark. Remember that he signed his deal in 2004. Contracts escalate each season, and '04 Portis would likely be signing for $8 million+ per if he were signing that contract today. A better comparison is Brandon Jacobs, a guy who isn't a full time back in the Giants system, but certainly has had more success on the ground than Leon to this point. He signed for 4 years $25 million this offseason. I'd say Leon's production as compared to Jacobs ought to place him right in line for that contract you proposed. I wouldn't be opposed to 5 years $25 million.
Good point about the contracts escalating each year, which is just another reason why we should get Leon signed sooner rather than later. If we sign him for 5 years $25 million now, he would want 5 years $30 million after his RFA season.
That's about right. His skills are worth 4/year a.k.a. Derrick Ward money. His home run ability to spark the team could easily justify the other mil., though I've always thought he could be another Dunn. 6 still seems like too much.
I would love to see Leon get more carries but I really don't know what that impact has an him. Leon had about twice the carries in 06 as he did in 07 and 08. In 06 he was not the No. 1 return man and had much less wear as a return man and got over 150 carries. In 07 and 08 when he took the additional role of return man his carries dropped and his YPC went up significantly. In 07 and 08 he had very few 10 plus carry games but he did show significantly less production the game after his 10 plus carry games. The reality is with more work Leon may well lose some of his explosiveness. It takes very litte to turn those big gains into 1 or 2 yard gains or even losses. We can guess that if Leon got 160 or 200 carries a year he would be incredible but that is a guess. Chances are very good that if Greene can carry the ball 15 to 20 times a game Leon probably gets the 5 to 6 carries a game and continues to return kicks. How much up front money do you want to give him? If you front load and he doesn't produce he becomes dead money on the cap. He isn't Clinton Portis, he isn't even Brandon Jacobs who's job is to kill the defense and still breaks big runs and moves the chains. Leon goes in a couple of plays a game with fresh legs and takes on a D that has been set up. By the way when Leon got twice the carries in 06 as he did in 07 and 08, he had about half the all purpose yards he did when he got less touches in the running game and his YPC were no where near as good.
