I agree with all of this. I never said he was turning into a starting RT, just said if Hunter lives up to this hype, we are going to be really good. I don't expect him to and I fully expect Vlad or some TC cut to be starting game 1.
Just started a new post but check out the quotes on WFH from DeGuglielmo today.... http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=72409
While the idea that "the Jets OL is built to run the football" nicely fits with the current popular sentiment on this MB that the offensive problems for 2011 can be blamed on Brian Schottenheimer, I don't think that's accurate. First, the Jets did NOT run the ball well in 2011 at all. They averaged 27.7 attempts per game (16th), compared to 34.2 passing attempts (17th), but their 3.8 YPC rushing was only 29th in the league. When a team can't run well, it's forced to pass. Since Schottenheimer and Callahan were in place in 2009 and 2010 when the Jets did run successfully, it seems that the problems in the run game need to placed on the players, both the OLers and the RBs, because they are the ones who changed. Unfortunately for the Jets running game, the same unsuccessful group from 2011 has pretty much returned for 2012 except for Tomlinson. Can DeGuglielmo make the OL better at running the ball simply through changing blocking schemes and coaching technique? That's a possibility, but I'm skeptical since DeGuglielmo did NOT do wonders in Miami. BTW, DeGuglielmo's enthusiasm for Wayne Hunter seems to be excessive, possibly bordering on bizarre, given that Hunter has been around for 8 or 9 years and was never good enough to actually crack a starting lineup except because of injury or retirement.
Disagree, We had very very good players who were already veterans that knew what they were doing that were able to hide the inadequacies of BS' offense. Losing Woody really hurt us as did lack of depth on the rest of the O-line. The new guys being brought up under Callahan and BS could no longer mask the terrible play calling.
You miss the point. The point is that Schotty and Cally were not variables in comparing 9 and 10 on one hand with 11 on the other. Changing out Woody for Hunter, and LT's rapid falloff from 10 to 11, meaning ROSTER CHANGES, were the variable.
Totally agree, But losing 1 player shouldn't bring down an entire system. If they had done their jobs and run a good effective system ( and coached up a valid replacement ) or been able to scheme around that one hole, we would have been fine. If losing one or two player ruins an entire season you're not a good coach, you've coached good players.
it was not just one player. LT came in in 10 and juiced the running game, but he clearly was not the same player in 11. You want the stats? His yardage gained rushing was just over one fourth the previous year in 11. That is a HUGE dropoff. Add in the games Mangold missed, Burress being not the run blocker Edwards was, and worst of all all those Sanchez turnovers giving up field position, points and putting the Jet O behind, forcing them to go to the pass. It was not only Hunter.
Don't you think the lack of downfield passing attack played an immense part in that? 9 or 10 guys stacking the box is an awful tough thing to run against when the D has no respect for the passing game. Additionally, 3.8/carry isn't out of the realm of what the Jets running game was in 09 & 10. The difference was there were alot more carries involved & the running lanes would spring open for larger gains come the late 3rd/4th qtr(IE the punishment i was referring to). This unit is nowhere near as deficient as many make it out to be. They finished 12 overall in many published rating systems. That's an above average unit. The only reason people are so up in arms about the OL is b/c 12th overall is well below this team's OL standard that has been in place since around 08 or so, & b/c of the offense's overall struggles.
The lack of a downfield passing attack definitely contributed to the decline of the Jets offense, but I put that squarely on Sanchez's inability to step up to be an adequate starting NFL QB. He seems to me like a more expensive, less risk-adverse, somewhat better version of Trent Edwards, but they both share the same issues. His inability to make pre-snap reads and to see the field well as well as his preference for throwing checkdowns make the OL perform worse, and that affects even the running game because, as you noted, the defenses put lots of guys in the box to stop the short passes as well as the runs. The Bills had this very same problem when Trent Edwards was their starter. The problem that I see for the Jets is that Sanchez is probably NOT going to find his inner gunslinger QB under Tony Sparano, and the Jets OL isn't good enough to impose its will on opposing DLs. If Sanchez is eventually replaced as the starter by Tebow, there's no doubt that Tim will chuck it downfield. Unfortunately with Tebow, the ball is as likely to land incomplete or be intercepted as to be caught by a receiver, or maybe moreso since Tim's completion % is < 50%.
Don't forget guys... Wayne Hunter DID have some very good games last year. I remember him owning Cameron Wake for almost that entire 1st phins game. He did also have plenty of terrible games, so he needs to lock down his consistency. It's not about him magically "getting better".
First off there is no comparison between Trent Edwards and Mark Sanchez; Trent Edwards Blows and Mark Sanchez is a middle of the pack STARTING NFL QB entering his 4th season (multiple road playoff wins…Trent Edwards again BLOWS). The reason Sanchez has the stereotype of checking down in 09 and 10 is because he was young and was managing the game. Last year he lacked both the time to pass and the receivers that could beat press coverage (Plax was all washed up), rolling coverage to a disinterested Holmes, making Keller and our rookie slot WR (who is very good by the way in the slot) the go to; or “checking down”. Add in the fact that the right side of the line was in shambles (Moore coming off of two hip surgeries and I will not mention the issues Hunter had as theyb are well documented) as well as an injured Slauson and Mangold is why we were unable to run the ball consistently and make teams pay for stacking the box. Do I think it will be better this year? I don’t know, time will tell. I will tell you, Moore (yet another year older) will be healthy, Vlad will be the RT, mauling Mario Williams or Mark Anderson, Mangold, need I say more, Slauson (is the guy I’m concerned about with that shoulder), and Brick will neutralize your improved pass rush. I would be more concerned about the Bills O-Line than the jets, just saying….
If Sanchez didn't have enough time in 2011, why would he have more time in 2012. Same OL. Maybe DeGuglielmo is a miracle worker and can turn some of the sows' ears on the Jets' OL into silk purses, but it's probably not a good idea to bet the rent on it. If Sanchez didn't have WRs to stretch the field in 2011, who's going to do it in 2012? Hill? Maybe, but he'll have to prove he can run routes and get open as well as catch the ball before he's taken seriously. Excessive reliance on check-downs and holding the ball too long as well as frequently throwing behind receivers are all signs of a QB that doesn't read defenses or struggles to understand what he sees on the field. That's how Sanchez and Edwards are alike.
Hard to make a coherent argument when you mention Trent Edwards, another flash-in-the pan QB like JP Losman and everyone else in a Bills Uniform since Jim Kelly including Kirpatrick. Tony Sparano has some pieces to work with on the Jets. Jets with Sanchez need to push the ball down field more aggressively and throw it up and tell a guy, "go make a play" and that's what Hill does for them. Not convinced that the Bills make much noise this year, so its hard to compare the Jets (more consistent winning program last 3 years) with the Bills (Failed to do much of anything.)
How can the O-line be better? Well a few reasons surely. 1. Alittle thing called cohesion. That's an extremely important facet of building a great O-line. This will be the Ferguson/Mangold/Moore's 6th year together. Those are 3 pro bowlers by the way.It will also be Slauson's 3rd year w/ the group. Hunter will be better just by being around Moore for his second year..and if Ducasse finds a way at right tackle he will have 3 years practice experience with the group. O-line coaches,players & experts all agree cohesion is the single most important trait of an elite O-line. Don't think that doesn't help the learning process of grasping this new system either..that should reduce some of the curve early. 2. You get the sense things ended badly between Callahan & the Jets. You wonder if he was pissed about them rejecting his OC interview last off season. Either way this group seemed alittle off last season. A changing of the guard was needed with the scheme. This is a talented group. I thought the Dolphins had the most physical blocking O-line in the AFC. And it's the scheme. I'm not sure what technique he teaches but his units always fire off the ball & get a great initial punishing punch. Callahan's unit emphasized the punch action as well..but everything was lateral. 3. As mentioned earlier they will be playing to their strength. No more Air Coryell at the Meadowlands in December. Time to get back to wearing teams down & protecting via play action.When this group was utilized properly they were the best in the AFC. I would even include that 2010 playoff group that included...yes..Wayne Hunter.
Is Sparano attempting to run more of a zone blocking scheme for the Jets? For example, if you're running the Wildcat you're running power with 11 on 11 personal? And in those formations or packages the o-line runs an extra tight-end and Mark comes off the field? Similar to what Ronnie Brown did. And you either bring Tebow in or Joe Mcknight?
According to Slauson the run blocking scheme ITSELF isn't changing much. The reads are more simplified & there is different terminology,but the plays them self will not. The difference I'm referring to is more philosophical within the technique. I'm not sure how he teaches it but his O-lines always fire off the ball with great quickness & get elite initial burst. Callahan's O-lines are alittle more about working with proper technique in unison than with Tony's.
Are you serious with the bold? New plays maybe. The line getting more time to play with each other. Moore and Slauson being healthy. Brick not having to cover for a hurt Slauson. Need I go on? Do you really not see ways the OL play can change? Just because you have the same players doesn't mean you can't improve or decline. That is basically what you are saying with your bolded comment.
