it's really really early in the offseason man. he picked up 2 cheap relievers all teams do that. And really were either phillips or minky better than a dozen guys still out there? Clippard and vizcaino aren't exactly elite players, I agree Hawkins sucks, but albaladejo is a better player right now than clippard, better performance in the minors and majors, better stuff too, he's also only 3 years older at 25. As for Santana, how is it his fault? His boss has clearly set a cap as to what can be given up in a trade for santana and it isn't what the twins want, the only options are wait and hope the twins come back for what has been offered, or that steinbrenner changes his mind.
Two things. 4 million a year for Hawkins is not cheap. Second, it's not Steinbrenner that set the cap on what we will give up for Santana. It was Cashman and for now Steinbrenner is letting him do it. Both Steinbrenner and Michael would have made the deal last week.
Here we go again bro. Albaladejo was brought in for depth in the pen. That's an area we sorely need help in. And he's not a scrub. He just doesn't have a large body of work to base anything on. I'm okay with that. Clippard was never going to start another game at the pro level as long as we don't suffer enough injuries to make a season a wash. It's a good trade. You obviously weren't paying attention when I explained the Matsui deal. It is to create a 3-team trade, where we send Matsui to San Fran, they send us back a young arm, and we package that arm, Cabrera, and another prospect for Santana. Still think it's a stupid deal? I'm not really interested in Patterson, but we're going to have to do something if we trade Melky. We lost out on Hunter and Jones. The market isn't exactly loaded with centerfield talent. First base is a problem. I've been vocal in my displeasure in letting go of Phillips. The kid is a great bottom of the order hitter, and a good defensive 1B. I surely don't want to see Giambi there. Perhaps they feel Duncan can get the job done? I'm not convinced, but I'll trust in Girardi until I have a reason not to. They didn't let Myxlplyx walk though. He flatly stated that he came to the Yankees to play for Joe Torre, and when Joe was fired, Doug decided he didn't want to be here anymore. The point is, he's still trying to get Santana. He's also trying to continue to lock down our future. In case you haven't noticed, he's been trying to do this for years, and The Boss has been mandating he bring in guys like Giambi. You're directing your blame in the wrong direction. If Steinbrenner and Stick were running this, yeah, Santana would be a Yankee right now. And this would be our starting rotation: Santana Wang Pettitte (maybe) Moose Chamberlain Instead, right now it's: Wang Pettitte Hughes Chamberlain Moose (with Kennedy in the wings) If Cashman is allowed to do his job, it will be: Santana Pettitte Wang Hughes Chamberlain And Moose will be in the pen. Now which of these scenarios are you most interested in?
1 - depth assumes there is already quality which there isn't. Right now who do YOU see pitching the 6th, 7th and 8th? 2 - if they use him for a Santana deal then I am all in favor of it, we'll see. If we do I don't see that being Cashman's decision as I don't see him planning a deal like that. I DO see he may be thinking if we unload Matsui's 13 million we can pay Santana his 13 million next year without raising the payroll. After next year 60-80 million comes off anyway. 3 - Isn't Rowland still out there as a FA? 4 - He would have signed if we paid him. Since when does any player not play for the money over a washed up manager? 5 - That answer is obvious. 6 - The Twins had backed off on Kennedy so you are wrong there. We would have had to give up Jackson or Tabata, maybe both but I don't think so. I would bet we could have gotten Santana with just one of them.
1: What are you talking about? You need to create depth. It doesn't just magically happen. 2: Why are you always so willing to villify Cashman, but you can never give him credit for anything? If he wasn't the GM, we'd have no farm system, we'd have Hunter in left, Jones in center, and our starting rotation would consist of Santana, Wang, and Moose. 3: I don't know. Is it worth worrying about before we've seen whether Melky goes in a deal for Santana? 4: We both know ARod could have made more money on the open market. Mientkiewicz has money, and has won a ring. He can afford to play wherever he wants to at this point, and can stand on his own principles. 5: Obviously not. 6: They backed off Kennedy because we said we'd include Hughes. And if it weren't for Cashman being in the middle, Steinbrenner would have handed them both to begin with, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Seriously Don, I try not to argue with you, but come on. You seem like, to you, Steinbrenner can do no wrong, while Cashman can do no right. That's ridiculous any way you paint it.
The bottom line is he can't let Santana go the Red Sox no matter what the cost may be. If he does he should be shot and not just fired.
That's ridiculous. If it comes down to a deal where they send Crisp and Lester, or we send Melky, Hughes, and a top-tier prospect, you're going to hate Cashman if we balk? Come on. Plain and simple, you have to stop buying into this "prevent the Sox from getting xyz at all costs" BS. Is Santana the best in the sport? Maybe. We don't even know if he's in decline. Hell, look at Gagne. Yes, I'd like Santana to be in our rotation, but not at any cost.
1)Signing hawkins is a low risk, moderate reward move. he isnt expensive when you consider some of the deals relief guys are getting this season. do you want cordero for $46 mil over 4 years? how about linebrink for 4 years 20 mil? JC romero, kerry wood, eric gange, david riske, todd jones, troy percival are ALL getting paid more than hawkins. there is nothing wrong with this move for the yanks. even if he turns out to be kyle farnsworth II we only have him for one year at a decent price. 2) First base - Duncan/Betemit will be able to put up the same numbers as phelps/philips/menky. but if thats not enough, ive been hearing a lot about this guy: "36 year-old first baseman Alex Cabrera is a sleeper power threat among free agents. The former Rockie, Cub, and Diamondback has been mashing in Japan since 2001. The Nationals don't have any room for him but want him anyway. Rosenthal says A.L. clubs are looking at him as a DH candidate, also. Cabrera hit .295/.377/.512 with 27 HR in 441 ABs in Japan in 2007. " 3) The clippard trade was great for us because we got rid of someone who was never going to contribute to our MLB team and got someone who could potentially fill a 7th inning role for us NEXT YEAR. clippard wasnt going to get any better and it was a good move for us to trade him while we could get decent value than 5 years down the road having to release him cause hes a scrub. we have enough clippards in our system. desalvo, chase wright, darrel rasner, jeff karstens, kei igawa. plenty of depth to convert them to bullpen help or use as spot starters. 4) what exactly is the whole matsui/giants/santana scenario? if we can trade matsui for prospects then avoid having to give up hughes, kennedy, or melky, then i say we do it. matsui is still good, but hes less of a sure thing than he used to be, we can get rid of him while his value is high. i have no problem with damon in left on opening day if santana on the mound.
So let's see... we've fired our old manager, hired a new one, signed our four biggest concerns (Mo, Posada, Pettitte, and some other guy who I hear plays third base), added a couple of cheap, short-term, middling relievers (a position of need) while only giving up one player who would likely never see the ML roster, are (or were) involved in serious trade talks for the best pitcher in baseball, and are allegedly attempting to relieve the glut of players at DH while getting a young pitcher or two in return. And it's not even midway through December yet. But according to Don, Cashman should be fired because he's not addressing the team's needs quickly or adequately enough? I have an idea... why don't we wait until we're more than a third of the way through the offseason before throwing in the towel on 2008.
Thanks. I'm still around a bit, just not as active... especially in the baseball threads during the off season. (I have a few posts in the Jets forum... they're easily lost in the shuffle, though.) As for why I'm not as active: I'm taking 17 credits at school (including neurobiology, cell bio, ecology, and pop bio) and can assure that I graduate summa cum laude with a good semester (I'd really like to have that for grad school), I have a two-and-a-half month old baby, and - since the kid arrived - I've become the sole income provider, so I'm not just working full time... I've increased my hours. Yeah, I haven't had too much in the way of free time. :smile: I've had the flu (or something like it) for the past few days, though. That opened up a lot of internet-surfing time.
Yeah, I would. BTW, this bum doesn't sound like anybody we could ever hope to include in a deal for Santana. So that's not Cashman's plan (I didn't think it was). http://www.nypost.com/seven/1212200...s_would_deal_matsui_at_right_price_310797.htm lol..5.88 era in the NL West. I guess that's about a 7.5 anywhere in the AL. Maybe a 8.x in the AL east. And 1 run worse then he did as a rookie. Definitely Cashman's kind of reliever. Lowry, who he isn't interested in had a 3.92 (as a starter which I guess we don't need).
veeeeery intersting read. the guy at the end thinks the yanks signed hawkins because theyre gonna go after another free agent and if they signed mahay/vizcaino they wouldnt be able to since they are type b free agents and hawkins isnt.
Look deeper. Sanchez is young, has nasty stuff, and was impressive in the minors. As "bad" as he was last year, do you see that K/9? 10.73 last year. 11.88 in his minor league career. That is sick. If Sanchez is the centerpiece of a trade to acquire Matsui (I assume it wouldn't be a straight-up deal), then this is not a bad thing.
If everything you said there either a) was actually happenening or b) had anything at all to do with Cashman then you would be right but a) they're not and b) all of the signings you mention were because of Steinbrenner and Cashman was against them all. He refused to give Posada a 4th year, Rivera a 3rd year and wouldn't even talk to Arod and that's kust for starters. Want to try again?
All I'm saying is that I doubt the Twins would want him. You said this morning that trading Matsui to SF was part of a 3 team deal.
Hi, and welcome to Negotiating 101. You can sit next to Hank Steinbrenner, who also lacks patience and will throw everything including the kitchen sink at a player before they even have time to think about it. Secondly, it's not Cashman that wouldn't talk to A-Rod. Do you remember who it was that initially made the ultimatum in the first place? (Hint: His name rhymes with Bank Freinbrenner.) This is all aside from the point that the ultimatum was that the Yankees would not be involved in negotiations with A-Rod, the free agent, due to losing the Texas subsidy. Seeing as how A-Rod removed that hangup and went back to the Yankees asking to stay, the point is rather irrelevant. Unless you think that Cashman personally did not want A-Rod to be on the team, which is ludicrous. Lastly, my larger point was not about who did what for whom and where the credit should go, but that it is a little early in the offseason to be talking about what Cashman has or has not done as it pertains to the Yankees' chance of success in 2008. If you hired a contractor to build you a house, I can just picture you standing there yelling at him as the frame is erected, "WTF, dude! You call that a house! It doesn't even have a roof! I'll get rained on! You're fired!" Let's reserve judgment until all the pieces are in place, and let's not forget that external sources are not really that necessary for next year's Yankees. They can (and hopefully will) be a very formidable team with the rotation they currently sport, and piecing together a semi-decent bullpen from a few signings here and there and the (hopeful) emergence of a few of the guys they have in Trenton/Scranton. They have enough quality pieces down there that (again, hopefully) several of them should work. Could you find the quote where I said that, please? (If you're having difficulty finding it, there's a reason... I never said anything about trading Matsui being part of a three team deal.)
You are kidding yourself if you believe any of what you just said. Cashman said last spring that if Arod opted out it was over. Hank wasn't even in the headlights back then. Cashman had no intention of ever giving Posada or Rivera more then he offered BTW, I wouldn't have either but since he is totally hapless when it comes to replacing people I'm glad Steinbrenner stepped in). That's been written in countless articles.
Allow me to repeat myself. Hi, and welcome to Negotiating 101. If you look at what Cashman said earlier in the year, he said that the Yankees would not negotiate with A-Rod as a free agent if he opted out (due to the Texas subsidy). I believe I even stated this explicitly in my last post. Steinbrenner, however, is the one who blew it up into the huge ultimatum.
Don, it was me that was talking about the 3 team deal. Beyond that, I think you've gone off the deep end again. If it weren't for Cashman, as I said, we'd have no farm system, a rotation of Santana, Wang, Moose, Chase Wright, and Tyler Clippard. We'd have no depth whatsoever. We'd have traded away all of our youth, and ARod would not be in pinstripes. But keep up with your rant, you're all fired up now.
