I don't know. I'll say this: Girardi has lost weight since the season started. He knows the seat is hot. Yeah, so you would have been willing to part with two guys who haven't had 20 games experience between them, the best defensive outfielder we've had since O'Neil, and the future best defensive outfielder, for a guy whose numbers are getting worse? The thing is, the Mets gave less because neither the Sox or Yankees was in it anymore. As soon as one was back in the mix, the price jumped again. Please don't pull revisionist on the deal, it's totally incorrect, and is why Don gets beat up every time he talks about it.
Yankees would have had Santana for Hughes and Cabrera plus a lesser prospect or two. I thought they were crazy at the time for not pulling the trigger and still think they were crazy not to. You could only hope and pray that Hughes becomes the pitcher that Santana is and Melky is easily replaceable. I for one am very glad that the Yankees made that kind of mistake, I can't imagine how bad the Mets rotation would look right now without Santana at the top, his presence alone gives me a sliver of hope that they can make something out of the season, then I look at the lineup and I lose that hope but that is besides the point. Anyway Yankee fans, lets get those sigs up or do we(Mets fans) even have a sig for the Yankee fans?
YES I'd definitely be willing to part ways with two PROSPECTS to land me the best pitcher in baseball in the prime of his career. I remember you saying you can see Hughes being the best pitcher on the Yankees staff in the next few years, and I came back with, if Hughes can be as good as Wang i'd be thrilled. You said if Hughes is ONLY as good as Wang then you'd be disappointed because he would only be a #2 starter at best and not the Ace he's hyped up to be. Wang has won 38 games the past 2 years and already has 7 wins, he's an Ace. Just pointing it out, but back to the argument. This wasn't trading for an old Randy Johnson, this was for the consensus #1 pitcher in the game, even in 05'? When Johan didn't win the Cy Young, most of us, including you said he should of won it because he was the best pitcher but didn't have the wins to show for it. Ian Kennedy? I could give a damn about him...Again, the only thing I'd be worried about was Melky, because then this offense and defense would be even worse than it is right now, but you have to give up something to land a Santana type pitcher. Now on Tabata, I really doubt Minny would of requested him since they got Delmon Young from Tampa, but if for whatever reason they asked for Tabata, then you close the page. Most reports I see are the Yankees didn't want to give up Hughes/Kennedy/Melky...I said it was dumb then, and it is looking even more dumb now. All because Boston won with young kids, the Yankees wanted to copy and keep their kids. Thing is, Santana is still pretty much a kid in baseball years.
WIll we look back on the non-trade 5 years from now with regret? Maybe. However, that's five years from now. It's going to take some time for the youth movement to settle down and get things back in motion. Yankees fans have somehow been conditioned to believe it's somehow our "right" to be in the postseason every year. Now let's just assume for a second that Santana manages to improve his numbers over the past few seasons over the next few. (Let's not forget, he's in a different league, with guys who haven't seen him, where he gets a pitcher to throw to rather than a DH, in what is considered a pitcher's park. There's no guarantee that whatever he does as a Met could be duplicated as a Yankee, but that's neither here nor there.) Hughes and Kennedy have a total of 13 starts this year. Combined with what, another maybe 8-10 last year? Two dozen starts, and people are ready to label them busts? Even if they both become quality #3 level starters, you add those to Melky and Tabata, and there's still no way you trade all that for Santana. Again, we can't look at this until 5 years from now to determine whether this was the right move or not. At the same time, let's just say they did acquire Santana. What do you think our record would be? Maybe 2 games better? Pitching has not been our problem, getting any runs at all has. Unless our staff is going to start making a habit of throwing perfect games, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference how they pitch.
I agree with Alio that you cannot judge the non-trade yet. I think after the 2nd season you can. But here's the thing, the Yankees made their bed by not making the trade. They now have to give Kennedy and Hughes every opportunity to succeed which may mean keep sending them out there this year even if it means to sacrifice the 2008 season and plan on starting the 2009 season with them in the lineup. I think after the first month or two in 2009, if there hasn't been significant improvement with them then maybe you would need to move into a new direction. But, you can't just close the books on them without giving them a fair chance here because they didn't want to get rid of them for Santana.
It's too hard for me to get worked up about this year so far. No Posada, Hughes could barely see, and the best player in the world has been out for weeks. Maybe it's because of the comeback last year, maybe it's because I wasn't really expecting the playoffs this year.
Not defending the JUNC but IMO: 1- What would Torre have done that would have made the results of this or any series different? Nuthin' 2- Exactly, and just like last year we are struggling with Pitching and injuries early on in the season. And as far as the METS go. Good for them. What do good teams do vs depleted or lesser teams? They whoop ass which is what we got. Funny, is that I doubt Willie will get any credit here.
Yeah, but all they have to do is stay above .500 into late July. They'd still at least be in the wild card race.
Hank Steinbrenner must be scratching his head at night. Not giving up two pitchers that have done ZILCH in the major leagues, for arguably BUT statiscally, the best pitcher in baseball the last five years and STILL under 30 years old, has to make you wonder.
Are you implying that I think it's the Yanks "right" to be in the Postseason? The team looked average in Spring Training, on paper, and look average now. But with $200 in payroll, you kind of hope a team isn't just fighting for the Wild Card. I never labeled Hughes or Ian "busts" but I for sure would give them up in a nano-second for Johan, but they didn't...And I really doubt Minny asked for Tabata...Again, most reports were Hughes/Kennedy/Melk...That's more than okay for Johan. We may not be able to know if these kids will pan out in 5 years or not, and yeah maybe Santana makes this team 2 wins better this season, but at least for the next 5 years you know you have two Aces to build behind in Wang/Santana... Oh well...
I would just say the 96ers. Most of the "real" Yankee fans I know have been fans since the team sucked in the late 80's. I remember going to a half empty Yankee stadium when guys like Claudell Washington, Wayne Tolleson and Alvaro Espinoza where playing on a daily basis. I don't know because I'm not a Yankee fan but is missing the playoffs for the 1st time in what 12 years worse than having guys like Mike Pagliarulo, Don Slaught and Rich Monteleone on your team? Man I could go on for days with those guys.... Hensley Muellens, Matt Nokes, Tim Leary, Dave LaPoint, Mike Blowers, Oscar Azocar, Pat Sheridan, Torey Lovullo (lol) Wade Taylor. Ok I'm done..... eh what the hell why not throw in Dan Pasqua, Ron Kittle and Henry Cotto?
Jeez, that's like a timewarp. Claudell Washington and Dave Winfield were two of my favorite outfielders (and players) ever. Pags was by far my favorite player as a kid, more than Mattingly, more than Pags. I liked Slaught too. Haha, Bam Bam Muellens. Matt Nokes was supposed to be the "next big thing". Pasqua was a good player. For Seattle.
Dude that's just not right...You're so mean. Not as if I have a lot to laugh about cough cough Nick Esasky... But do you remember when the Yanks traded away a young Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps? Good times :grin:
Dan Pasqua was the truth. If he could be cloned and a 25-year old Pasqua could play for the 2008 Yankees, they would win the fuckin' World Series this year. That fuckin' guy was magic.
:rofl: I have Pat Sheridan's autograph somewhere. He was signing autograph's outside the dugout at a game I went to. I am happy I went through those days, I made me appreciate the dynasty years much more.
See that's just it.... going through 22 years of frustration and watching guys like Rico Brogna, Butch Husky, Tim Bogar, Joe Orsulak, Chico Walker, Frank Tanana, Jeff Innis and Charlie O'Brien struggle to win 59 games in a season will make it that much better when the Mets finally win another one.
