I'm sorry if I misunderstood your intent, but in your post, post #63 of this thread, you said, "If Douglas puts his friendship with Gase over the team, he belongs on the same trash list as Idzik and Mac." I took that to mean that you would think that Douglas should be fired as well. You mean you'd want to keep him as GM even if he belongs on the same trash heap as Idzik and Mac?
If Adam Gase is the best friend Douglas has, he has bigger problems to deal with and should probably take a leave of absence. If he can't separate his business life from his personal life, he needs to resign.
Say Darnold comes back and the Jets are still awful. 4-12 record, bottom 5 offense, Gase losing the locker room, etc. And say after all that, Douglas endorses Gase and keeps him as coach for 2020. Then yeah I'd want Douglas fired. But that's a hypothetical. The team may look much better when Darnold returns, and if not, Douglas may pick a new coach. Anyway, if that hypothetical plays out, would you want Douglas fired?
I disagree. To begin with, as I already said, they may not be "best friends" but they supposedly like each other a lot and are close or good friends. Secondly, no one's going to go out of his way to humiliate a friend, and firing Gase during the season with the OL and shit CBs that Mac left this team with, would be going out of his way to humiliate his friend. He could let him finish out the year and try to make some needed changes in his offense, play calling and approach. Douglas probably wouldn't even have his first GM job if it weren't for Gase, so he's going to give him every chance to fix things/turn them around.
Darnold and Herndon should help, but with our OL do you really expect the offense to be able to do much? I don't. I'll admit that it may be possible that with a different offensive system or play calling, that things could get better, but I can't say with any confidence that they would definitely get better. I'm not sure that any HC or OC could succeed with the grossly offensive offensive unit we have. How are Gase and Sam supposed to succeed when the OL can't consistently open holes for Bell, and can't give the QB time to go through his progressions, and he doesn't have WRs who can consistently get open and catch the ball? For that matter how can the offense have any real success when they don't even block elite pass rushers? No, I wouldn't want Douglas fired under any circumstances this year. IMO it would be totally insane to fire him before he even gets a chance to run FA and a draft. If we did that, we might as well just fold the franchise, because we could forget about any qualified candidate ever being willing to take the Jets' GM or HC job. We'd be stuck with more incompetent boobs like Bradway, Idzik, Mac, Bowles, Mangini, and Rex. Even if the Johnsons finally realized that they needed to hire a knowledgeable, experienced VP of Football Operations, we'd also have to forget ever hiring anyone qualified/competent there. We would be back to being a full-fledged circus and laughingstock of the NFL. I can't even believe I'm reading posts on here about firing Gase and Douglas this year. It's ridiculously impatient, short-sighted and insane. It's a knee-jerk reaction because of the past. The past is past.
It's so nice to have options...gag..how the HC gets fired ..by CJ or by Douglas ???>>so much to look forward to...it's nauseating Being a Fan of this circus you get to see all Three Rings going full steam but you are left in the role of Sad Clown And the decades roll by..
First of all I don't expect, given the past history of the franchise, that Douglas is in a position to independently fire Gase, so this whole conversation may be largely moot but I do believe that Douglas will have a strong voice in helping the Johnsons make that decision, if it needs to be addressed. He must always be able to address the business needs of his employer without regard to his personal relationships; if that is a problem for him he does not belong in the position. This is no different than what is true in any other business. Since Douglas and Gase have only been acquainted for four years and were only in the same place for a year, I would think that the stories of close friendship are probably overblown. That is not to say that they cannot have a very strong, friendly business relationship and even spend some time together "out of the office;" I can find nothing that goes beyond that. There has never been any suggestion that someone "go out of his way to humiliate a friend," only to perform his job in a dedicated and professional manner putting aside any personal influence. Selfishly looking at how he got his job and endorsing the "one hand washes the other" philosophy is not in the best interest of the team. He'll also need to overcome the self-interest of his agent who also represents Gase. That's just business as usual anywhere, as is being strong enough to tackle the job one has been hired to do without injecting their personal biases.
My understanding is that the org chart has not changed from the Mac/Bowles era. Gase and Douglas both report to Chris, so Douglas does not have the authority to fire Gase. It would have to be a Johnson to do it so we've got our coach for at least 3 years.
That's going to be a hard evaluation with the Eagles pass rush stomping our O-line. That will be a tall task to expect Sam to play well in his first game back.
I disagree on all accounts. Just because Douglas doesn't fire Gase immediately or even at the end of the season doesn't mean that he's putting his self-interest over the best interest of the team. He may believe in Gase and think with the OL fixed and some better talent that Gase can thrive. He may be willing to fire Gase in two years or three years if he doesn't turn the situation around, but not now. If you think personal feelings don't enter in and affect decisions in business, you're totally naive. I worked at Goldman Sachs for 8 years, the creme-de-la-creme of Investments Banks. I saw it there all the time. Someone would become a Partner and he'd promote his cronies and friends and oust people who were much better qualified. I see it all the time in the business world, in the arts, and in sports. Politics is everywhere. People hire their friends, promote their friends, protect their friends. That doesn't mean that they don't do their jobs well. Firing someone in the middle of a season, especially only 3 games in when the HC has been saddled with his #1 QB sick and then out and having to play with his #2 and #3 QB and having a shitty OL, that totally disrupts passing and running the ball and the intricate timing of plays, would definitely humiliate that HC, and for a GM to fire him that early, it would be going out of his way to humiliate the HC imo. HCs are occasionally fired in the middle of the season in the NFL but not that often. Usually, they aren't fired until the end of the season.
No, there isn't. With one situation, the Jets would have learned from their own and others' past mistakes and would be acting in such a way so as to not doom themselves to repeat the past. In the other situation, one hasn't learned anything from the past because one is acting out of the irrational mindset that the Jets are cursed or will never do things right, one doesn't even have enough facts to come to a rational conclusion, and yet is jumping to a conclusion, and as a result, is dooming the Jets to repeating past mistakes.
The two bolded passages are blatantly contradictory; you can't have it both ways. The best person gets the job, anything else is counterproductive any way it's couched. Nobody is looking to humiliate anyone but someone who neglects to pull a trigger that needs to be pulled for fear of humiliating someone is not doing their job properly. I'm not going into the points you raise in your first and third paragraphs because I haven't gone there at all and, as I've said before, I don't think Gase will be fired based only on his record but may expose himself to that if those things that caused him problems in Miami resurface here. He could start by openly accepting responsibility for everything that happens on the field as Harbaugh did after Michigan's sorry showing in Wisconsin on Saturday. https://www.fox2detroit.com/video/607964 Most of the presser told the same story but the section from about 1:15 to 4:00 sets the tone we need to hear in Florham Park.
That whole line of "cursed" thinking is ridiculous and should not enter into a serious discussion. As you said, the past is the past, there's no need for a prospect to consider the experience of Kotite, Carroll and Bowles while they were here.
Now what? Have we ever beaten Philly? I just hope the front office & the team stay together...because if we don’t fix our Oline we might be 0-7 going into Maimi...if we fix our Oline...with Herndon,Mosley & hopefully an effective queenin Williams return we could surprise some teams & change this years narrative...& Just noting when was the last time a first year coach for the jets lost his first 3 games? I don’t think I ever saw that...I just hope we rebound
No they aren't contradictory. You have the screwiest ways of looking at things. Everything isn't black and white. There are usually shades of gray. Someone can still be very good at his/her job even though they hire or protect cronies/friends/colleagues. One less than stellar decision doesn't make them all bad or incompetent at their job. Most jobs have more than one component to them. Someone who runs a technology dept. can make one or two flawed hires or promotions and still be a whiz at technology and have his/her dept. running at a very high level, just not quite as high as it perhaps could be. But things like that don't exist in a vacuum and are generally moot, because there are trade-offs, and other things that factor in. And any decision someone makes isn't necessarily permanent. I know that Douglas probably doesn't have the authority to fire Gase now even if he wanted to, but for argument's sake, let's say he does. Just because Douglas might protect Gase at first doesn't mean that he would a year from now or two years from now. Meanwhile, Douglas could hit the jackpot in the draft, sign some key FAs, make a shrewd trade or two and have the talent level of the team vastly improved, and the team be winning some, but not winning enough in Douglas' estimation for the talent level, and at that point Douglas could determine that Gase isn't getting it done, that he's had adequate time, and had a fair opportunity with a much better OL and fire him. If one is going to be rational and make an accurate and fair determination about an underlings continued employment, one has to consider the circumstances, correct whatever one can to help the employee have a better chance of succeeding, etc. It's in eveyrone's best interest that Gase succeeds. I'm sure that if Douglas thinks that Gase could do a better job of play calling or adjusting the offense, both as a friend and as the GM, he will sit down with Gase and have a discussion about those things.
We agree that the line of "cursed" thinking is ridiculous. By prospect, do you mean GM or HC candidate? If so, again you're totally naive. You better bet that those candidates consider who their boss will be, what kind of support they're likely to get, will the owner or their superior "meddle" or stay out of the way and give them free rein to do their job as they see fit. The Jets have a history under the Johnsons of meddling, there's the screwy org chart, and if they fire a GM before he even gets to conduct one FA or draft, it will show that they're complete imbeciles, have no clue what they're doing, that there is no job security, and anyone would have to be crazy or desperate to take a chance on ruining their career with the Jets. I'm sorry that you can't see that. The rest of us can.
