Uhh skippy, you might want to check Klecko 73 "response" to my origional post before going "retard". The reality is you should thank me for my gracious and charitable willingness to try and instruct you in the philosphies and strategies needed to develop a succesful NFL franchise. Furthermore, this is the type of insight that may get you out of your mother's basement someday and on the road to reasonable and productive life.
In other news: the sun rises from the east. I don't get your point here. As it has been stated, Tanny has traded away our draft picks for veteran players just like NE has. Or how do you figure we acquired players like Jenkins, Favre, Sheppard or Edwards. Obviously, like through the draft, some players succeed in their new team while some seem to fail. Favre failed here and it seems that Lito isn't doing either quite that well, but Jenkins has been a great move and Edwards is showing flashes of greatness also. To answer your somewhat strange questions, yes I would take every draft class and trades for our draft picks over the past three years, over yours. IMO Jenkins, Revis and Harris would be more valuable to the today's and future's New York Jets than Welker, Moss and Merriweather. Plus we've got our own chungs and wilhites in Shonn Greene and Dwight Lowery, all of them being more or less unproven. Which FO were you running again, douchebag? :rofl:
It's funny, you try to put yourself over as some kind of football guru and then come out with the Mother's Basement Smack. You haven't proven yourself to be anything but just another internet idiot with surface knowledge of football and the ability to regurgitate information that someone else has enlightened you with. You've been like this since you started spewing your keyboard vomit onto TGG. Just another idiot.
Our needs include (in no particular order): Defense: 3 starting DLs pass rusher cornerback to play opposite Revis Offense: veteran backup QB fullback right guard left guard or tackle (Brick would make an excellent LG if he can't handle LT) third receiver that can move the chains Rhodes just needs a coach to light a fire under him.
I've defended Rhodes for a few years now, but I am not so sure what you just posted is truth anymore. He has placed what appears to be far less priority on his game and far more priority on his image. I see him promoting himself in all kinds of interviews on NFL Network, I hear about his live streams on his website, he Twitters all day long to keep his 'followers' interested... and in all of these forums, he tells people how much of a playmakers he is. The only place I don't see him putting in extra work is on the field. He can't tackle, he's out of place in coverage, and he doesn't appear to be a leader on the field. The self-promotion part of it seems like a slap in the face of the fans that see and analyze and agonize over his performance in the uniform of their favorite team and he doesn't seem to give a shit either way. Rhodes came out this season saying that he asked Mangini to put him in position to make more plays, put him in position to be that playmaker, and was flat-out denied the opportunity. Rex has put him in that position and he has failed with mostly flying colors. How many more coaches do we need to go through to light a fire under him?
Rhodes was a Pro Bowler-apparent when Mangini had him close to the line in run support and blitzing. The fact is, he's Dr. Smith: LOST IN SPACE. To put it another way: I knew Darryl Ray. Darryl Ray was a hero of mine. Mr Rhodes, you are no Darryl Ray. Rhodes needs to be a strong safety up near the line--Jets need a free safety who has a nose for where the ball will be, and who makes a timely decision to go and get there.
Maybe we can tell him that the guy with the ball has a built-in tweeting keyboard and he can thumb tackle them.
OK sparky, find someone who can read and have them read through the thread for you. Some of your fellow numbnuts were arguing to build through the draft and dissing your GM for trading away picks. If memory serves, you guys got Jenkins through a trade. If you play a 3-4, nose tackles are the priority so that's a reasonable trade. It's certainly more value that building through the draft a la Gholston. Another numbnut compared your GM's drafting to Godicheck's drafting from 2006. Again, with the trades the Pats made 2006/7/8, they have resulted in a stockpile of picks and Chung and Butler this year plus more next year. In other words, a comparison has to include players drafted later plus the picks stockpile. Even you can figure out having 4 2nd round picks next year is good. Actually, maybe you aren't bright enough so let me say that having many early picks is good because you can like draft more better players to play on your team. Or you could trade them for the future to get even more players. Having more, better players is better because if some get injured you have more of the better kind to play for your team.
Sour, with all due respect, this line degrades your whole post. Darrelle Revis isn't just a solid CB, he's one of the best players in the whole league, period. Ten years from now, if he's in the conversation for best CB in NFL history, it won't surprise me. You're talking about "just one" HOF'er. I don't get it: what more could you possibly ask for from "just one" guy? Your post makes some good points, but wtf??
first of all, premiere left tackles dont just pass block. they have to pull double duty and be hard asses in the run game because there is no te giving him help. d'brick is d'bust in the run game, while very much improving in the passing game. the thing about him is his draft position and the money he got paid ,compared to the output that he has given to the team during his entire career. drafted too high, paid too much for someone who is improving. ogden, and pace didnt need a couple years did they? the draft is a crap shoot if you are the new york jets, raiders, redskins or the browns. most other teams can see a good player when they see one, and the jets have blown way more picks on busts and projects who we have to wait a few years to fully realize their potential, than they have gotten in all-pros. i would not waste a high pick on a tweener, or project. i would always go best player available.....why wouldnt anyone else?
we need D-Line. Jenkins is a Diesel Truck.....great when running but breaks down alot. Why are people so convinced that we have our QB of the future...........the only thing he's done was ....getting a lot of $$$$$$. What is so great about Sanchez???? How come Nagle and Foley weren't that great ......their numbers were close and the offense had less talent.
Wow - nice unprovoked personal attack. Enjoy the vacation. Anyway, I do agree that you make your team by drafting good players and trading away picks for good players. The Jets have done both. However the point you keep trying to make is how "smart" the Pats are about drafting and trading for players. The reason they are smart is because they lucked into a HOF QB in the 6th round in 2000. Seriously if they were "that" smart, they would have drafted Brady in RD 1 and he still would have been the best player in that draft. Instead, the Pats and 31 other teams passed on Brady for not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5 but almost 6 rounds in that draft. As for the Cassel point, you have proven it for me. Because the Patriots didn't have to search for a franchise QB, they have the luxury of drafting a guy like Cassel, letting him sit on the bench and develop for a couple of years WHILE adding quality players through the draft, FA and trades to build the team. As I indicated earlier, but you still failed to comprehend, the Jets have expended 33% of 4 drafts (9 players) in trying to get the QB answer right. Heck if the Jets had Brady or Peyton now, they could have used all those picks filling other holes on the team and even if HALF of those guys pan out, that is still 4 more quality starters on the team than what they have now. You can act arrogant all you want, but before Rd 6 of the 2000 draft and one Mo Lewis NFL history altering hit, your team was in the same position as the Jets were - going no where fast.
I agree with the original poster's assertion that Tanny needs to stop selling the farm with draft picks. Allow me to use the team I know best to prove a point... Brandon Jacobs-4th round draft pick. Ahmad Bradshaw-7th round draft pick. Michael Johnson-7th round pick David Diehl-5th round pick Justin Tuck-3rd round pick These are just a few examples of picks the Giants didn't trade up for that have helped the team greatly. The only 1st round talent the Giants traded up for recently was Eli, besides that they frequently stay put. I am NOT trying to bash Tanny's talent assessment ability as he has done a great job of bringing in talented players. There is, however, something to be said for staying put and drafting well regardless. In 2005 the Giants only had 4 draft picks and they left that draft with Corey Webster, Justin Tuck, and Brandon Jacobs. Those are the types of drafts that help a team win championships as it brings in talent/provides depth, helps circumvent the salary cap in terms of how much you pay for talent, and doesn't mortgage the future. Tanny has done a great job bringing in talent that he deems desirable, but he NEEDS to hold on to draft picks and get the team some damn depth! The Jets have more top-flight talent than most teams in the NFL. Their depth, however, is easily in the bottom 50% of the league. Tanny deserves the credit for bringing in Revis, Leon, Brick, Mangold, etc. But if you're going to do this you also need to blast him for the lack of depth (specifically in the trenches) as well as in the WR corps (until recently). I would like to see him stand pat in a draft and simply use the picks he's been dealt.
The one thing you left out is that when you trade multiple picks to trade up for a player in the draft, as the Jets did for Revis, Harris, Keller, Sanchez and Greene you are looking at two breakpoints on the deal: 1. The player needs to prove out on the field, because he represents 2 or 3 players worth of opportunity and a decent NFL talent evaluation staff finds a player with every other pick they make. So Revis and Harris have proven out for their picks because they're clearly better than what the Jets were likely to find if they exercised the picks. Keller is a question mark, because so far he's no better than what the Jets would likely have gotten out of the picks. Sanchez is a special case because he's a potential franchise QB and as such nearly priceless. Greene is a failure because the three picks the Jets used to get him would likely have turned into more impact on the field than he has (more on Greene and Harris in point 2.) Trading up multiple picks to get a player means you almost certainly have to play him right away or there's just too much value on the bench compared to the field. The Jets have used 12 picks on acquiring the 5 players above and of those 5 players 2 are clearly worth the price. That leaves 10 picks (7 of them early picks before the 4th round) just kind of hanging out there in the wind waiting to see if the gamble pays off or not. 2. The second breakpoint in the deal is whether or not the player can stay healthy or not long enough to make a contribution worthy of the investment in picks. David Harris is an excellent linebacker. He's also an injury prone linebacker and this has been true both before he was drafted and after. If he stays healthy and has a long career then the trade up to get him will be a clear winner, assuming the Jets could not just have selected him otherwise. If he proves to be an injury prone player who can't stay on the field consistently then the trade up will almost certainly not have been worth it. Shonn Greene appears to have the makings of a good NFL runningback. He's strong, shifty with good moves, and he has the ability to break tackles in the secondary. He's also clearly injury prone at this point, with his first real NFL contact in the preseason turning into a sprained ankle and bruised ribs. He's gotten very little playing time during the season as a a result of the injuries early on and maybe because the staff is afraid of the fallout if he gets hurt now. At this point it appears that the gamble to trade up and acquire him is a failure, and until he is given enough of a workload to justify it and stays healthy in the process it will continue to have the smell of failure about it. The trades of draft picks for veteran players are both easier and also harder to defend depending on how you look at things. If you think you have a window right now and can successfully exploit that window then trading draft picks for a key piece like Kris Jenkins is defensible. If on the other hand you're trading picks to plug a hole in a year where you don't have a realistic chance to win a Super Bowl the exact same trade can be stupid because it robs from the future for no good present return. The Kris Jenkins trade can be seen as brilliant if you believe the Jets had a valid chance to win a Super Bowl in 2008, 2009 or 2010. If can be seen as a stupid move if you believe the Jets were deluding themselves about their chances in that time period - if so they'd have been much better trying to develop a young NT than trading for a guy with past health difficulties and no prospect of playing at a high level for more than the period of the window mentioned above. All things considered I think we're watching Mike Tannenbaum's strategy for building a Super Bowl contender break down under the weight of the accumulated pressures that were present in the system. The Jets really needed to be highly competitive in the 2008-2010 period in order to validate the strategy. Instead they have been average and the pieces acquired are wearing rapidly as the window begins to close on them. I think the odds are that the strategy was a failure and we're now in the waiting period before whatever comes next.
There is a failure in your analysis in that you have not accounted what the "composition" of a roster is actually like. Essentially players in the league are either drafted or undrafted. Teams are made up on average of 50% of drafted players and 50% of undrafted players. HOW you acquire those players is different as there are basically 4 methods - FA, UFA, trade or through the draft. In the cap era, you need to balance all four to be successful, especially when you factor in the salary cap. Your concern with the Jets drafting is a bit unfounded. Since 2006, the Jets have used 24 draft picks (an average of 6 per year), with 16 players still remaining on the roster. At best, you can expect a team to hit on about 50% of their draft picks no matter what round they are picked in. If you have 10 picks, you can expect with in a year of two only 50% to be on the roster. After 4 years of Tannenbaum picks, the Jets are at the 66% ratio. I am pretty sure that is at the top end of the spectrum. Unfortunately your analysis doesn't factor in what the Jets have done with their other picks as well. The Jets have sent multiple picks to fill holes - Favre, Jenkins, Edwards, etc. Now Favre is gone and up until the point they were 8-3 everyone loved that trade before he got hurt. However Jenkins has filled the 3-4 NT position and Edwards could be the deep threat WR the Jets need. It is unlikely the Jets could get those key positions filled with the picks surrendered. Sure they would have JAGs at those positions and the guys would have made the roster, but I am not sure they would have the same impact as the guys we took. More importantly, where would the Jets be without Revis at this point? Or Thomas Jones? Or David Harris? Or Dustin Keller? You need guys who can start - getting JAGs doesn't help the win column no matter how many you have unless you consistently want to have an average roster up/down the depth chart. Under your analysis, the Patriots 2007 draft was an unmitigated disaster, with only ONE player remaining on their roster (Meriweather). However, the Pats have engaged in the "pay it forward" process with the draft picks because they CAN. They simply don't have room on the roster given their overall available talent. And the reason for that is because they have had the luxury the past 8 years of not having to search for a franchise QB in the draft, FA, etc. Acquiring Welker via trade for the Pats works BECAUSE they have Brady. Acquiring Moss via trade for the Pats works BECAUSE they have Brady. With any other team (with the exception of the few teams with franchise QBs like the Colts, Steelers, etc) these trades are unmitigated disasters. The bottomline is that no one can compare the Jets team building strategy to the Pats or Colts or Steelers because it is patently unfair to compare. Those 3 teams have legit HOF QBs that have enabled them to build the team strongly around them through the draft without the pressure each year to get the most important position on the field filled. IF the Jets have picked right with Sanchez, there should be significantly less pressure to trade picks and players for higher quality players. Yes the Jets have holes, but I think those holes can be filled this year with a trade down with what will be a high 1st round pick and a restocking of players along both the defensive and offensive lines.
Much like the Patriots, the Giants have been able to build quality depth because they have the QB position taken care. Granted Eli may be too inconsistent to label a "franchise" QB, but the guy clearly demonstrated he has the ability to win a Super Bowl, so for all intensive purposes he isn't going to be replaced any time soon. So what does that mean for the Giants? Well they have had 31 picks since 2006, of which TWO have been used on the QB position - that amounts to only 6% of their draft picks during that timeframe. Of course the can do this because they are set at the QB position. As I mentioned before, the Jets haven't been set at the QB position and since 2006 they have expended the equivilant of 33% of draft picks during the same time period in trying to fix it. The bottomline is you can't do all three things at one - franchise QB, quality starters and depth - and because you can't it isn't fair to blast Tannenbaum. More importantly you can't compare him to the situation the Giants are in because the Giants have had the luxury of adding quality starters and depth to Eli since 2004.
IF the Jets have picked right with Sanchez, there should be significantly less pressure to trade picks and players for higher quality players. Yes the Jets have holes, but I think those holes can be filled this year with a trade down with what will be a high 1st round pick and a restocking of players along both the defensive and offensive lines.[/QUOTE]
This is a garbage argument when taken on it's face. The Pittsburgh Steelers have had two HOF QB's on the roster in their history and yet have been consistently good, particularly in the decade BEFORE Ben Roethlisberger showed up. They won many games more than the Jets with their player acquisition strategy and they stood pat and took the QB that dropped to them with Roethlisberger instead of trading up from the 11 pick to get one of the two guys everybody thought were can't miss. You cannot compare the Jets and Steelers organizational strategies in any way, and it has nothing to do with the QB's it has to do with everything else. If you want to argue that the Patriots and Colts lucked out on the QB's that's fine but then you have to account for the Patriots actually having the 6th round pick to take Tom Brady, a luxury the Jets would never have given their current strategy - always taking a trench guy with the late pick because they failed to get adequate trench guys down low. The Colts actually traded value AWAY from Manning when he came into the league sending Marshall Faulk to the Rams in return for draft picks. They were going to build through the draft and that's what they did. That's why they've become such a good team. Manning was a godsend but they used the space he created to do what successful orgnaizations in the NFL do: which is to exploit the draft fully and not overpay for aging free agents that have wear and tear on them - which builds a premature ceiling into the teams chances.
