The players and owners were slinging shit at each other over a 10 foot high wall. At least now it seems like that wall has been knocked down so they have to do it while looking eye to eye. Both sides need to just stop with the back and forth nonsense and get this shit settled..
I generally agree with this. I can't imagine the owners ever contemplated litigating this; particularly because discovery rules would give the players everything they've been demanding for financials these last six months. Seems more plausible that ownership held out hope that, if they could fix a lockout in place until May, the players would start to get squishy right around draft time - which was starting to happen. Judd Nelson's ruling was just what the doctor ordered for solidarity. But if the circuit court lifts the injunction, it swings back to the owners. All they need is another sixty days.
From my very limited perspective, I'm hoping that NOW is the time these assholes can stop being assholes and get a deal done. I imagine Judge Nelson will not stay her own decision (players have to file opp papers to the stay motion by Wednesday) but I'm sure the COA will. BUT, now the players have something to lose (if the ruling is overturned) and the owners have something to REALLY lose (if, as it is being reported, the decision is pretty well written and thus the COA will have a difficult time justifying overturning the decision). I've found that while appeals are pending can be a REALLY good time to negotiate a settlement. That's what I'm hoping for, these assholes get the deal done now before the COA even hears the case, and not wait until September or later to get the deal done (because at the end of the day, everyone knows SOME type of deal will get done).
Was just watching ESPN and Adam Schefter said that the verbage Judge Nelson used to write out the ruling will make it very difficult for the NFL to appeal it. I dk how this makes sense or what it means but that sounds like it might expedite shit
Bah. 89 pages to say what could have been said in a single sentence: The union decertified; there is no more players' union; you have employment contracts with several hundred players, and several hundred others with no other market for their services. Done. The Sundayjack Paperwork Reduction Act of 2011 is unfurled.
They'll keep throwing dirt at each other for months regardless of how this gets ruled on. The more interesting thing is how this messes with the draft. If they can get free agency going ahead of the draft then everyone's board is going to be blown to bits. The more chaos this causes, the better chance Tanny has of pulling a Houdini off and us ending up with someone we really shouldn't have been able to get. Hey, it could happen :breakdance:
If Goodell is correct, and I don't know if he is or not, he has just described the European soccer leagues to a tee. It certainly isn't a model I'd like to see the NFL follow.
Behold the owners' bold gambit: speak directly to the present and future middle-low tier players so that they appreciate the mythical land of Thunderdome that awaits. Where guys like Chansi Stuckey, who certainly have a role to play in this dark world, will have to deliver pizza in the off-season, between a series of one-year, non-guaranteed contracts. Lay out the harsh reality without all the posturing by their labor counsel and union reps. Of course, the fatal flaw in this plan is publishing it in the Wall Street Journal instead of blasting it out in pop-up ads on porn sites. EDIT: And now being slightly less sarcastic, I'm generally a not a pro-union guy. As you know, JEeves. But, that really speaks more of me and my faith in markets. And if all that Goodell says is true, then that's a pretty bleak picture for BOTH sides. The large market owners and elite talent players all thrive - in theory; while everyone else goes bankrupt. But, then, what happens when everyone else goes bankrupt? The money pool shrinks and the large markets get less large; while the elite players get paid a bit less elitish. So what happens then? Well, the owners can't go anywhere but out of business, and the players will either have to find a new league that doesn't exist on planet earth, OR reach an agreement with the owners who need a product to keep their billions from turning into millions. We'll go full circle with this thing, through all sorts of wonderful drama, before everyone realizes that nobody's buying their bullshit story.
Sounds like a giant clusterfuck. I can't believe some no name agent says "why have a draft?". Really? Why not just fuck the entire league up and lose a good percent of fans.
D'Brick and Cotchery came today: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/26/us-nfl-dispute-players-idUSTRE73P5FJ20110426 (Reuters) - It was not back to business as usual around the NFL on Tuesday despite a federal judge siding with players this week and granting their request for a preliminary injunction to lift the lockout. A Minnesota judge ordered the National Football League to end a six-week lockout on Monday, saying it was hurting fans as well as the players with the sides yet to agree on how to divvy up more than $9 billion in revenue. Players around the United States arrived at team training headquarters only to be told they could not use the facilities as the NFL countered by asking for a stay and filed an appeal. Offensive lineman D'Brickashaw Ferguson and wide receiver Jerricho Cotchery were among at least half a dozen New York Jets players who were politely turned away after showing up early on Tuesday hoping to use the team's facility. Ferguson, who has a $750,000 workout bonus in his contract, said he thought his appearance should count toward the bonus even though he did not work out. "I made every opportunity to avail myself to work out," he told reporters camped out half a mile from the entrance to the Jets camp for a chance to talk with players. "But at this time I wasn't afforded that opportunity." Cotchery, who had back surgery in February, said he had come to use the cold tub as part of his rehabilitation but was denied the chance to take a plunge. "I'm a big cold tub guy and I hadn't been in a cold tub in a while," said Cotchery, who has been using a private doctor for his rehab. "I'm disappointed I wasn't able to do that." The NFL directed clubs to tread carefully with returning players while legal ramifications were sorted out. "Players are being treated with courtesy and respect at club facilities," the league said in a statement. "We do not believe it is appropriate for football activities to take place until there are further rulings from the court." Players were met with similar receptions after showing up at team facilities across the league, including in Washington, Carolina and Pittsburgh. "Some of them have not been allowed in, some allowed in but not allowed to work out," DeMaurice Smith, director of the NFL Players Association, told ESPN radio. "That the National Football League is allowing this sort of chaos to occur, I'm not sure it's a great day for football." Smith termed the league's reaction as "petty and small at best." Jeff Pash, an NFL executive vice president and the league's lead negotiator in the labor dispute, told ESPN radio: "Obviously, a lot is going on in court. "There's a lot that remains to be sorted out." (Reporting by Larry Fine; Editing by Frank Pingue)
I agree with that largely, I think that most unions are somewhat anachronistic - we have legislation these days to protect employees' rights. On one level I do have sympathy with the players' views, we don't tell lawyers or accountants coming straight out of university which firm they're going to work for and which city they're going to live in. I can sympathise with the players' preference to select their own contracts and employers just like any other industry does. However, the problem is that free market principles don't work too well if you want a continuously competitive league that ensures the weak get stronger and the strong have to get smarter to stay at the top. Indeed, that flies in the face of most free market teaching, so you've got to build a legislated framework to enable it to work. Unfortunately football is too much of a bubble and I suspect that no-one has bothered to look at other sports and how the open market model has affected them negatively. That cuts both ways - the owners want to have their massive free market-based profits without the competitive pressures of the free market really having to affect them. If they want to be insulated from the model that allows soccer to be dominated by a handful of massive clubs and the vast majority of others struggling to keep their heads above water, then they need to open their books up and get the deal done. Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, the Maras and even our own Woody might do very well from opening things up and removing those annoying encumbrances like wage caps, drafts and collective bargaining agreements that keep them from really building dynasties, and I'm sure that Peyton, Darrelle, Chris Johnson and a bunch of other elite players would be extremely happy to see the back of it, but for most people on both sides it will be a fairly unpleasant awakening. It isn't a difficult model to predict and it needs DeMaurice Smith and his chums to start representing all of his members rather than just a few while at the same time the majority of the owners need to wake up and realise that the handful of big fish at the top really aren't acting in their best interests either.
The simple answer which is of course subject to oversimplification is that appellate courts can more easily review and overturn legal findings by trial courts. But findings of fact are subject to a higher standard of review. As a result if a trial court judge makes findings of fact, and presents them in the "right" way, and those findings are the basic underpinnings of the overall ruling, then such a ruling is harder to overcome than one where the judge is making a broad ruling on the application of the law. I apologize here to other lawyers, but I have little time in answering. As a caveat, I have not read the opinion...
it's weird... I agree with Goodell. But then he should've written at the end of his writting: "What the hell were WE thinking when WE dropped the CBA?"
No no .... this is all dead on. I wish I had more time to spend in comment, because this scratches me where I itch.
