if i might chip in: Ok. Jets D might be the most over-hyped D in the league right now - which I agree. His reasonings are completely off the mark - that's the point, not whether Jets D is either elite or not. (your reading comprehension skill leaves quite a room for improvement.)
Yes, he coverd sacks and used that as a reasoning for not giving the Jets more credit than they're due, but he also talked about the LB's and their tckls and the secondary which he did not focus on sacks. So how could he do nothing but talk sacks? Read the article again, he covered severals aspects of the Jets D including coaching. BTW, when grading Dlines, sacks are important, sorry that doesn't make you happy, but it is a vital stat for that aspect of the unit. He also gave your CB nealry the highest prasie possible and he talked about your LB's being better than AVG. I read it as a Defense that has the tools and coaching, to be an elite unit, but they need to prove it. I'm not sure why it's either 100% positive or it's garbage.
Okay man, we said that his reasoning for the DL is completely off mark. And no, when grading Dlines as a 3-4 unit sacks are not important. You could possibly use tackles for loss, but not sacks. This is our main issue.
Care to explain why? Let me give you the reasoning: 1. DLs in 3-4 do not rack up stats. The numbers of tackles/sacks is rather irrelevant when it comes to 3-4 DLs. Don't just take my words for it. Look at the stats of Vince Wilfork (2.0 sack/66 tackle) or Richard Seymour (8.0 sack/52 tackle) According to his logic, they are rather pedestrian too, as their stats are rather comparable to the stats of Jets counterpart. Is it really the case? Or how about Aaron Smith (5.5 sack/60 tackle) or Casey Hampton (1.0 sack/22 tackle) Hampton might belong to the lower tier of DLs, by his logic, no? There is a reason when I call someone a moron. Or... how did your NT, Jason Ferguson, fare last year, during the 11-win season? Did he set the entire league on fire? Anyway... this is a guy I find comical - he is so devoid of football knowledge, and yet he considers himself an authority to even wear that "senior writer" gig. What else is more comical? Jet defense that played mediocre, or a moron who is so full of shit? 2. He is apparently oblivious to the fact that Jets acquired Lito Sheppard. This level of ignorance is not an easy thing to show - and yet this moron does it with such a painless ease. Need I say more? Revis - Sheppard - Rhodes - Leonhard might not be the very best secondary this league has to offer, but they do belong to the top 5 (at least on paper). 3. Suggs = OLB. Harris = ILB. That he can draw comparison between these two appalls me. Suggs's role will be filled by either Gholston or Thomas/Pace. Now... what have you got to offer?
Holy shit. At this point, I'm beginning to think you're purposely misinterpreting things. I explicitly was talking about the DL. Obviously he's not gonna discuss sacks by the Secondary-- actually, this writer on this site might do that...
5 bucks he either doesn't post in this thread anymore or he replies by saying we always insult people who say anything bad about the Jets.
All in due time Well I'll just wait, sit back and enjoy, I'm looking at this season to be at least exciting. We my not make the post season but this should be at least fun to watch
For the record, I don't think the Jets D will be elite, so I have nothing against someone saying that. But if you're gonna write an article and call out specific players for being average, at least make sure you know what you're talking about. In discussing the DL - the D Line, the Defensive Line - he used sacks as his gauge for their production. In a 3-4, DL sack #'s are practically irrelevant. If you think otherwise, you're wrong; and that's not an onion, it's a fact based on the way that scheme within the game of football is played. (PS If you misinterpret this post, please direct yourself to the TrashTalking Forum)
No, tackls and sacks aren't how you determine the effectivness of a Dline especially a 3/4 scheme. Infact he gives both Jenkins and Ellis credit for being solid porven football players, but he also added they are pushing 30. His real criticism of the Jets Dline was Marques Douglas re-read what he wrote. He in now way says "all that matters is sacks and tackles from the Dline. But remember this isn't an article stating the fact that the Jets can't be a top unit, just that they're getting more credit than they deserve right now. Try not to overreact to everything you read. Again I disagree, you're just overreacting to something you view as negative. Anyone else reading it who isn't on an emotional rollercoaster simply see's one persons opinion. Ya know, you accuse another person for being uneducated about the game and in the very next sentence you lambast him over not acknowleding a player that is the poster child for the NFL injury report. Lito is loaded with talent, but he can't stay healthy. The Eagles had his sevices but decided to go out and spend a boatload of money on Asante Samule to replace Shepard, because Shepard was unreliable. Are you really going to ignore that fact and praise a guy that was a backup in Philly because he couldn't stay on the filed? Please stop with the insults because you see things the way you want to see them and someone else doesn't share your views. Once again he gives the Jets LB's credit, for being above avg, is this not good enough for you? Afterall the Jet D was the 16th best in the league last year. As for comparing Suggs to Harris are you on drugs? He never said anything of the sort. He simply said Scott was the third best LB in Baltimore and he said the Jets LB's don't equal the Steelers or Ravens LB's and to this point he's right. Bascially you got all upset about an article that you are completely lost on because you lose your mind if you read one word that doesn't mesh with your lofty expectations. Good lord the guy gave the Jets credit at every position on the defense and all you read was something negative. He was simply saying the Jets have to prove their as good as the hype they're being labled to have. And you lost your mind over it. You really need to re-read the article, only this time put a check next to everything positive the guy says. Cause clearly the good news was wasted on you.
Screw Bleacher Report. I'd rather read the views here. At least we know we're fans and nobody's trying to masquerade as Steve Serby or something.
He calls Ellis average. Ellis was average against the run and led all 3-4 linemen in the league in sacks. That's not an average lineman. That's at worst above average. Defensive tackles and offensive guards are the two positions in the NFL that age best, and he's talking about the a nose tackle's age being a major issue? Marques Douglas has been replaced as a starter, yes, but he still leads all players in the NFL in tackles for a loss over the past few years (was it 3 or 4?). He takes up space and makes tackles - That's what our old starter, Kenyon Coleman, did, and did well, by the way. As long as Marques Douglas isn't as retarded as Coleman when it comes to pass rushing (Coleman couldn't hit a QB if he went unblocked, in all seriousness), then Douglas is an improvement. With Jenkins no longer 2-gapping on every play, he shouldn't be as worn down this coming year as he was last year, though quality depth would be a very good thing for him. The defensive line? It has improved since last season. The article has been deleted from the Bleacher Report. That tells you something about its quality without what you perceive as our Jets bias. The writer didn't criticize Shepard - He didn't acknowledge Shepard being on the roster. It furthers the case of the writer being uninformed, without a doubt. Lewis is half the athlete he was even three years ago. Linebacker, unlike line positions, is a place where age usually doesn't mean good things. Scott is faster and stronger than Lewis. Does he have the leadership presence? That's a very tough sell, and while I could imagine the possibility of him coming close, I wouldn't say that he is more of a leader than Ray Lewis. Lewis is the definition of an emotional leader on the football field. As far as tangibles go, however, Scott is better than Lewis. To not acknowledge this is to simply buy into name recognition. David Harris was equated to a lesser version of Suggs in the article if I remember correctly, and other people seem to as well (as evident by their referencing the statement). We could be wrong, but it would probably be prudent to take the word of the majority here. This statement of his is ridiculous. It is another glaring sign not only of the writer's inept grasp of the Jets' defense's current situation, but of linebacking positions in general. He makes one accurate note in that Bryan Thomas' strength (and really his only strength) is his play against the run. He makes one other obvious note that has been touched on time and again by beat writers this offseason, the possibility of Gholston breaking out and becoming a player rather than an empty uniform. This is a complete variable. Pace is a pretty complete linebacker - I don't know where this idea that he's bad in coverage comes from, because he's amazing for a guy his size and about par for what he needs to do. He's a good pass rusher, which you can't tell by the stat lines because of Mangini's fouling of the defense halfway through the season. The entire defense's production fell off, and even during those two huge wins (Tennessee and New England) players on the defense (including Pace) were quoted in the papers as saying that they weren't getting to rush the passer. If you can't understand that the defense was vanilla for the second half of the season, a situation that was grossly exacerbated by Jenkins' injuries towards the end of the season, then you are simply as uninformed as this (now removed) author. The writer is an idiot, if not evident by his blatantly demonstrated lack of knowledge of football, the Jets organization, the events of last season and the Ravens organization (which he is apparently a fan of), then evident enough by The Bleacher Report's removal of his article. You fail to grasp this and proceed in, whether intentionally or not, flame baiting members of this forum in every thread that you go into. When you're running around screaming that everyone is crazy, it might be time to look in the mirror. But hey, you never know: You could be Kevin McCarthy in Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Shit happens.
I see, so sacks do matter? And BTW he called Ellis and Jenkins solid proven staters. As you go on in your little self involved rant you basically voice an opinion, how is that any different than that writers opinion exactly? Oh that's right some Jet fans confuse their own opinions for fact, I've seen it done here before. Once again, the guy also complimented the Jets Dline, something lost on yet another Jet fan, it's like a disease or something. Yep it proves whatever you think it proves, cause you're a Jet fan and your opinion...again is fact. Maybe he didn't acknowledge a player he doesn't think is going to see much playing time. Given his record for being injured and missing games, I think that would be a fair assesment. Apparently some Jet fans feel every move the Jet make is some historic event where the seas part and players are made Saints, but not everyone share the enthusiasm of the Lito trade. Try to get over the utter devistation of Lito not being a part of this guy's evaluation cause it isn't worth the tears being spent on it. And yet you miss the point of his opinion. He never compared players head to head, he more or less compared LB units. Sure he called Scott the third best LB in Baltimore, but Scott isn't in Baltimore anymore...is he? And no matter how good or bad you think players are, Lewis is still in Baltimore and Scott isn't. Obviously Baltimore valued Lewis enough to resign him and they let Scott walk. Now if we're gonna go donw this road, you can't simply express your opinion on the subject and ignore how things played out in Baltimore. See this is a business first and foremost. And no matter how good you use to be, if you aren't getting the job done you won't be playing mcuh anymore. Just ask Joe Montana and Emmit Smith. A couple great players who ended their careers on different teams. Obviously Baltimore thinks enough of Lewis to keep him and allow Scott to walk. Two different positions I know, but you're the one who brought up Scott and Lewis. And yes leadership does matter, Ray has tons. That's not what I read. He called the Jets LB's above average, what about that statment is wrong? Should the guy have said, "Oh the Jets have the most awesome LB unit on the planet" would that have made you happy? For heaven sakes, the Jets aren't exactly the most incredible defense on the planet and I'll repeat this AGAIN! The guy gave the Jets props AT EVERY POSITION ON THEIR DEFENSE! Yet many Jet fans are whinning it wasn't a perfectly writen article, good grief get over it already. I'll tell you where the issue is here, it isn't about his breakdown of the Jets D, it's the title. That's where the problem is. Jet fans read the title and from that moment found something wrong with everything the guy said and even with things he didn't say. Perhaps you could tell me, whens the last time the Jets did anything that deserved nothing but praise for every player on their roster? Cause I can't remember a Jets team that is Pittsburgh or NE worthy of praise, but to listen to some Jet fans little rants here you'd think they were pissed thier beloved Jets aren't getting that kind praise. Oh I don't know perhaps you can share with me how the Jets looked agaonst Seattle, San fran and Denver last year? If I'm not mistaken, your team lost to all three of those teams and that was with all the amzing talent you think the Jets have and this guy just refuses to acknowledge. Ya know I don't remeber the guy saying nothing but negative things about the Jets, but apparently you do. You can make excuses for the Jets down the stretch, and Jenkins injury. But the Schedule wasn't exactly loaded with SB contenders for the Jets and is evident everytime a Jet fan reminds a Dolphin fan about how this years schedule wont be a cakewalk like last year. But if the Jets were really as devistaingly as awsome as you expect everyone to tell they are, why would the Jets lose to Seattle, Denver and San Fran? It seems to me you want everyone to tell you how awsome your team is and than allow your team excuses for loses to some pretty bad teams. Oh, but the Jets are awesome...right? No the writers not an idiot, it's the Jet fans who seem to think they know more about football than everyone else on the planet. Over and over and over the constant theme with many Jet fans is, "say something bad about our team, you're an idiot"! This isn't a one time thing, it's not been said a couple of times a year. It's in nearly every thread that has a negative word in it about the Jets.
