Mets 2006-07 offseason thread

Discussion in 'Baseball Forum' started by davecrazy, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. 17a_tailgater

    17a_tailgater Active Member

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    you have to wait in line in person on feb 17th.

    if you are a member of the Friends of the Hall of Fame,than you can order tix online or over the phone.

    on Feb 25th or something if tix are still available you can then order them over the phone.

    but only 1500 tix are going on sale.
     
  2. FITM

    FITM 2006 TGG.com Best Photoshop Artist Award Winner

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    Yeah, we'll I live close enough to go and just stand online.
     
  3. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    Valentin hit the wall at the beginning of September - he hit under .200 the last month of the season, and was even worse in the postseason. The first 5 months of the season were the aberration from his performance since 2000, and the Mets would be very foolish to think that it's going to happen again. Add in the defensive weaknesses, and I think it's clear that the Mets need a new second baseman.
     
  4. FITM

    FITM 2006 TGG.com Best Photoshop Artist Award Winner

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    His batting average and on base percentage have declined every season since 2003.

    I just don't like this option.

    Not saying I want Valentin starting there everyday or anything...
     
  5. Attackett

    Attackett Well-Known Member

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    He still put up pretty good #s for a 2nd baseman in those 3 years before last. It is clear that 2nd is the one position that needs to be upgraded the most, they don't have a viable alternative option in house so they need to look outside the organization. Giles is or actually would be by far the best option..

    And by the way, what did 3rd get banned for??
     
  6. FITM

    FITM 2006 TGG.com Best Photoshop Artist Award Winner

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    Check the banned thread.
     
  7. deviljets7

    deviljets7 Well-Known Member

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    For the record I am a big Valentin fan and was strongly against adding a Loretta, Kennedy or Lugo in free agency. However, I believe Giles is the one player that does represent an upgrade over Valentin. I believe a big cause for Giles' struggles last year was the fact that he was asked to hit leadoff.

    Someone asked earlier, why not just wait until Giles is non-tendered. The reason I believe you have to strike now is because I think it will be very difficult to get Giles as a FA. He's from California, his brother is on the Padres and they have shown past interest in him. If Giles is non-tendered I would be stunned if he doesn't go to San Diego. I would not bet on being able to sign Giles outright if he hits the market.

    If the Braves are really serious about non-tendering Giles than you can get him at a discount via trade. Even if the package in return isn't great (say Vargas and Gotay) it's better than letting him walk for nothing. It would be similiar to what happened with Millwood a few years ago when they traded him to the Phillies.
     
  8. FITM

    FITM 2006 TGG.com Best Photoshop Artist Award Winner

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  9. deviljets7

    deviljets7 Well-Known Member

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  10. MSUJet85

    MSUJet85 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Moderator

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    According to multiple reports, the Mets did not tender a contract to Victor Zambrano prior to last night’s deadline, thus making him a free agent. As expected, the Mets did tender contracts to OF Endy Chavez, C Ramon Castro, LHP Oliver Perez and RHP Duaner Sanchez, while re-signing LHP Dave Williams to a one-year, $1.25 million deal.
     
  11. 17a_tailgater

    17a_tailgater Active Member

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    did we sign zito yet?
     
  12. Irv

    Irv Member

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    Finally free of the Zambrano mistake, even if there is nothing to show for it anymore. You wouldn't believe how many people think he's some sort of a savior. That crazy talk by one of the mods is why I quit visiting Amazinz.com (along with their atrociously laid out new portal page, I now see).
     
  13. 17a_tailgater

    17a_tailgater Active Member

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    if your on my team,no matterwhat your suckattude is , I still root for you.I want to see you succeed.but some players,neR the end I will wish for their depature.

    its not Zammy's fault HE was traded for Kazmir.he tried too hard and didn't let us know twice when he was hurt.
     
  14. Learn To Swim

    Learn To Swim 2008 Nightowltom "Best Non-Jets Poster" Award Winn

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    Depending on how cheaply he could come (which may not being an option, judging by this market), I wouldn't mind the Mets negotiating a deal with Victor. He's already said that he's willing to pitch from the pen this season, and an extra arm never hurt.
     
  15. silent scream

    silent scream Well-Known Member

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    It can if it's walking batters all over the place.
     
  16. Cakes

    Cakes Mr. Knowledge 2010

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    For being brazen and obnoxious. I believe his chicken was choked for a few days to help settle the board down. If he wasn't banned there would have been about 100 more posts in the banned thread with a bunch of people taking shots at the mods and only some of those shots were justified.
     
    #396 Cakes, Dec 13, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2006
  17. MParty7441

    MParty7441 Well-Known Member

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    Rumor that zito could sign tonight. We'll see, there's something on Metsblog about it. Some blog is reporting something.
     
  18. BlairThomas#1

    BlairThomas#1 New Member

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    Interesting article on Zito.

    Updated: Dec. 19, 2006
    When evaluating Zito, believe the real numbersBy Rob Neyer

    I don't pay all that much attention to quotes in the newspapers. I used to. I used to spend a goodly amount of my precious electronic space running down ridiculous things I read in the papers and magazines. But I got tired of doing that. So did you, probably.

    Then the other day, I saw this one in the New York Times, Scott Boras talking about his most eligible bachelor/client -- "With Barry Zito, I don't need any perception. Sometimes, I need help. Not on this one. It's rather obvious. He's a special player" -- and I took it as a recall to arms.

    Boras doesn't need any help on this one, huh? So why did he say this, just a couple of weeks ago?

    "He is, next to Greg Maddux, the most durable pitcher to hit the marketplace in more than 30 years He's never missed a start his entire career. He is a winner and he is durable. In the last 25 or 30 years, only two pitchers have pitched 200 innings every year and had over 100 victories for six years."

    Barry Zito
    Starting Pitcher
    Oakland Athletics

    Profile
    2006 SEASON STATISTICS
    GM IP W-L BB K ERA
    34 221.0 16-10 99 151 3.83


    That was in the San Francisco Chronicle on Dec. 5, reported by Henry Schulman. Sure, there's nothing untoward about stating the facts if they help your client. And Boras' assertions look reasonable enough. Is Zito the "most durable pitcher to hit the marketplace in more than 30 years?" Depends on how you define "most durable" and "marketplace." Is Zito a winner? Well, he's won more games than he's lost. Is he durable? However you define durable, Zito certainly qualifies, because it's true that he's never missed a start in his career.

    What about that other claim, though? Let's be fair, and focus on just the last 25 years. How many pitchers have, over a six-season span, pitched at least 200 innings in each season and won more than 100 games?

    Two, as Boras said? Nope.

    Three? Nope.

    Four? Nope.

    Without looking all that hard, I found five: Randy Johnson did it once (that is, over one span of six seasons); Roger Clemens, Tom Glavine, and Jack Morris each did it twice, and Maddux did it nine times (consecutively, beginning in 1988).

    Hey, anybody can make a mistake, right? Maybe when Boras said "two" he really meant to say "four or five," or maybe he was misquoted. But here's the thing: Barry Zito has not done this. In his (only) six full seasons, Zito has pitched at least 200 innings in each, but he has not won more than 100 games; he's won 95 (he's got 102 career wins because he won seven in his short rookie season).

    Boras doesn't need any help? I read this in USA Today, a bit more than a month ago:


    Boras says Zito, 28, is destined to be the finest left-handed starter since Steve Carlton by the time he's 35. There's a fancy 74-page glossy book to prove it.
    "You're talking about a very special guy who has never missed a start," Boras says. "His durability has been rewarded with 102 wins. He has (a Cy Young trophy) in his back pocket. He has three All-Stars. He beat ( Minnesota's Johan) Santana, the best pitcher in baseball, in the postseason.

    "Barry could be one of the best left-handed pitchers of all time. Players like this are Maddux-esque."

    Zito does have that Cy Young trophy. Jack McDowell has one, too. He did beat Johan Santana in the postseason. Also, Johnny Kucks once beat Don Newcombe in the postseason. Dave McNally beat Don Drysdale. John Candelaria beat Jim Palmer. Et cetera to infinity, plus one.

    Is Zito likely to become the finest left-handed starter since Carlton? His competition includes Johnson (five Cy Young trophies, 280 wins and counting) and Tom Glavine (two Cy Young trophies, 290 wins and counting). It's one thing to suggest that Zito's going to wind up in the Hall of Fame -- unlikely, but certainly conceivable -- and quite another to say he's going to be even better than the currently active left-handers who we know are going to be Hall of Famers (not to mention Jamie Moyer, Kenny Rogers, Santana, Andy Pettitte and Mark Buehrle).

    And of course, comparing Zito to Maddux is even sillier. As good as Johnson and Glavine have been, Maddux has been better. Zito has one thing in common with Maddux, or perhaps two: He doesn't throw a million miles an hour, but he'll give you a million innings.


    Comparing [Barry] Zito to [Greg] Maddux is even sillier. As good as [Randy] Johnson and [Tom] Glavine have been, Maddux has been better. Zito has one thing in common with Maddux, or perhaps two: He doesn't throw a million miles an hour, but he'll give you a million innings. Even that, though … Zito's been wonderfully durable, but not uniquely. With 1,338 innings over the last six seasons, Zito's only third in the majors over that span, behind Livan Hernandez and Buehrle (and four other pitchers have racked up at least 1,300 innings).

    Boras says that Zito is a "special player," but what exactly makes him special? How good is Zito, really? It's obvious that he's not Maddux-esque, or Carlton-esque, or Glavine-esque. But is Zito even Oswalt-esque, or Halladay-esque? Buehrle-esque?

    Before trying to put him in some sort of context, let's split Zito's six full seasons in half: 2001-2003 (Part 1), and 2004-2006 (Part 2, so far) …


    Starts Innings BB SO HR ERA RSAA
    Part 1 105 675 246 533 61 3.17 92
    Part 2 103 662 269 485 81 4.05 34
    Through the 2003 season, Zito was a special pitcher (by the way, RSAA stands for Runs Saved Above Average, courtesy of the Complete Baseball Encyclopedia). Since 2003, though? Not so much. The walks and homers and ERA are up ( i.e. bad), the strikeouts and Runs Saved Above Average are down (ditto).

    How does Zito compare to some of the other top young starters in the game? Considering only 2004 through 2006, here are some of our special pitchers:


    Starts Innings ERA RSAA
    Santana 101 693 2.75 137
    Oswalt 102 699 3.14 93
    B. Webb 101 672 3.40 87
    C'penter 93 645 3.10 85
    Halladay 72 495 3.24 80
    Zito 103 662 4.05 34
    That is not an exhaustive list, by any means. Over the last three seasons, Zito ranks just 27th among starters in Runs Saved Above Average. With 34, he's behind not only those luminaries listed above, but also (among others) fellow left-handers Buehrle (58 RSAA), Pettitte (56), Dontrelle Willis (48), Rogers (46), Glavine (40) and C.C. Sabathia (36). We might be charitable, and bump Zito up a few spots because he's been pitching in the tougher league. Still pretty hard to argue that he's one of the 20 best starters in the majors (especially if we give Oakland's defense as much credit for his recent success as it probably deserves).

    Why is Boras so desperately trying to create this perception of Zito as a truly special player? Because that's what agents do. I'll bet Boras knows exactly how good Zito is. Or if he doesn't, he's got a bunch of bright people in his office who do. I'll bet that 74-page glossy book doesn't contain any out-and-out lies. Lying in print isn't good business. But I'll bet it doesn't mention that over the last three seasons Zito's been a good pitcher but not a great one. I'll bet it doesn't mention that he's not one of the dozen best pitchers in the majors, and probably not even better than Buehrle or Sabathia.

    In today's inflated market, where Gil Meche is paid $11 million per season to be humdrum, Zito is worth something like $15 million per season, if only because he's so reliable. But Zito's agent doesn't want $15 million. He wants $17 million or more, and he's going to get that only if he can convince some team that Zito's new six-year contract is going to cover the middle years of a Hall of Fame career.

    Considering the financial profligacy that we've seen over the last 25 (or 30) years, does anybody want to bet that he can't?

    http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/hots...er_rob&id=2702157&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab7pos1
     
  19. 3rdAnd15Draw

    3rdAnd15Draw Well-Known Member

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    What's the big deal here? If you're the Mets isn't it worth paying a mil or two a year over what Zito's actually worth rather then having Dave Williams in the rotation?
     
  20. 17a_tailgater

    17a_tailgater Active Member

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