I agree with this because, ultimately, (you're the GM) you are attempting to ascertain whether or not this person is a good decision maker. That trait applies, especially to the Qb position, both on & off the field.
I will say, I don't pay much mind to the autograph stuff. I dislike that it demonstrates a poor decision, knowing it violates rules. But didn't Can Newton get busted for something like that when he was in college? Since being drafted, he's been the face of the Carolina franchise and a model citizen. My point is, transgressions can't always predict character in the NFL. I'm nervous about Winston, but he looks very talented, and we desperately need a franchise Qb. I hope the staff conducts thorough and diligent evaluations of him before April. (Or is it May, now?)
I don't think Jameis did but that's just from what I read on here. I don't actually care at all about it to research if he did or not. Ray Lewis I have looked into and I believe he was not involved in the killing. I believe someone in his posse did it. They then fled with Lewis in his limo and Lewis was involved in disposing of the evidence.
cam got caught wit stolen laptops. plead to a pre trial intervention program, that is common practice with first time offenders in the state of florida, and charges were dropped after completion. the difference is cam went 3 years afterwards keeping his nose clean, playing in a juco transferring and winning a heisman. time between offense and draft helped him. winston has all this coming up the same season he is entering the draft. there is little time for redemption. thats why it will be an issue all the way up to draft day
Fair points. And I agree. Like I said, I'm nervous about the kid and his self-awareness. But I'm almost keeping in mind that it is possible to turn yourself around and get on the right track. I prefer Mariota over him, hands down. But I'm intrigued by Winston if Mariota isn't a possibility.
pretty much where i sit too. thank god for the rookie wage scale. under the old rules i would not touch him in the top 15.
Which is criminal. Not murder but still. I just can't believe we've heard or will ever hear the whole story. My posse doesn't stab dudes unless I order them to stab dudes. That's how I roll, but maybe Ray doesn't have control over his posse. _
I again urge you to read the report and watch the Wainstein press conference. Carolina will not be hit w/ any penalties b/c they did nothing wrong(the basketball program) but SU is about to be hit hard which I hate to see.
Mariota does run the ball a lot, but that is more of a product of the offense Oregon runs and the fact that his line has been in shambles this year. Mariota has also shown the ability to read defenses, he is just more mobile than Jameis and therefore runs when he sees an opportunity to get some easy yardage. I'll say this, I want Mariota, real bad. Maybe more so than anyone in recent memory, obviously other than Luck. However, I wouldn't be totally opposed to taking Jameis if Mariota is off the board. The off-field stuff hurts Jameis in my eyes, but that's not the only reason I see Mariota as the better player/prospect.
Agree completely about Mariota but you're describing exactly what scares me. I want to make this clear, Mariota is amazing. I am in no way, whatsoever, claiming Mariota is not good and won't be good. Now, his running, whether it's due to his offense or not, scares me. I don't want a running QB. And when he is compared to the likes of Kaepernick and RG3 by many pro scouts, that's alarming. Look at both of those guys. Kaep was good because of the powerhouse San Fran was. He sucks now. His ceiling was a very low one. I don't even need to bring up RG3 LOL The problem I have is, Mariota runs because of Oregons offense, I get that. But that's a problem because that's an offense he has perfected that could NEVER be used in the NFL. So, essentially, he is running a college offense with a lot of running that would need to be completely eliminated out of his skills. He would need to run a pro offense, read defenses, all without the option to run the ball 100 times a season. Can he do that? Likely, but do you want to take the gamble on it? A running QB in a spread offense translating into a pocket passer in a pro offense. That's a tough task to achieve. Look at Geno. He sucks. He wasn't a running QB but he played in a very similar high Completion wide open offense that Oregon runs. How did that translate? On the other hand, you have Winston who runs a pro style offense and does not rely heavily on his legs. When he does run, he's a huge man that reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger, big time. He doesn't go down and is mobile in the pocket. He's a pocket passer that finds an open man. He doesn't look at two reads and then take off. He finds someone and if there is absolutely no, he makes moves with his legs. But the thing that intrigues me the most is his skill running a pro offense. He's having a rough year this year, but he won the Heisman throwing 40 TD last year, has thrown 24 TD this year, and has never lost a game, all while running a pro offense. Something Mariota is far from doing. Now you have two guys. Both with HUGE upside and HUGE talent. Both are very big and the perfect size for an NFL QB. But one runs a spread wide open Oregon offense, runs 70+ times a year, and one runs a pro offense who has had tremendous success throwing 40 TD in it in his first year. Up to me? I take Winston every time. Not because I think he's more talented, but because I trust his skill set in an offense he knows, one that will need to be run the rest of his career. History has been very bad to running QB's and college QBs in spread like offenses.
I agree with most of your post Falco, which is why I pointed out that I wouldn't be opposed to taking Winston. The 17 INT's this year does scare me a bit, and yes I know he lost a lot from last year but it's still something to consider. Just to put that in perspective, Mariota has only thrown 12 INT's in his entire 3 year career(only 2 this season). I know, I know, different offenses and all that jazz. Still, that's very impressive to me and not something you can ignore just because Oregon runs a spread and FSU runs a pro-style offense. I do believe Mariota is a better passer than either Kap or RG3 which will help him translate better than either of those guys. Given the right circumstances, I could really see Mariota becoming more of a Wilson than either RG3 or Kap. A guy with mobility that doesn't necessarily look to run but doesn't shy away from it either. I also understand why everyone is hesitant to draft a QB from a spread offense given what we've been through with Geno. However, surely every one can look at this objectively and ascertain that Mariota is lightyears ahead of Geno at this point. I have said this before and I'll say it again, if we do draft Mariota, I want him to sit for however long it takes him to grasp whatever offense we are running at that time. If that's in TC, great, maybe we have the next Luck. If not, you sit him, sign Bradford or whomever to hold the fort down for a year or two and let Mariota get acclimated to the offense. I'll agree with you in saying that Winston is probably more of a start right away guy, given his affinity for running a pro-style offense. However, I don't want to miss out on taking a potential HOF QB(hyperbole? most likely) just because he didn't run a pro-style offense in college. I know one thing, this will be the most interesting draft I have seen in quite some time. I just hope the Jets make the right decision, whether it be Mariota or Jameis.
And in no way should Geno ever be compared to Mariota or Winston. If I came across that way, I apologize. I wasn't comparing the two, but rather using Geno as an example coming out of a spread offense. Geno is a football moron. Winston and Mariota have VERY high football IQ's. I want both to sit. I don't want Winston playing right away either, so my position has nothing to do with immediate play. Yes, Winston likely would do well immediately based on his pro offense experience, but I am tired of franchises ruining QBs because they throw them into the fire. That can be good in some things, but not at the NFL QB position. Once your mindset is destroyed with failure and the fan base lynching you, it is very hard to come back from, ala Mark Sanchez. You bring up the interceptions, but against what you said, you HAVE to see Mariota's success in light of his offense. You can't just ignore it. I can guarantee you that if you put Winston in the offense Mariota runs, he would have an enormous amount of success and would likely throw very few interceptions. Receivers in a spread offense are very open a lot of time and with the potential of QB runs, the defense is positioned to try and contain him, thus creating more space for the receivers. When you play Mariota, you have to game plan for him to run. Kind of like when Vick was at his prime. A lot of his success was not only because of his skill set, but because he used his legs so much, it opened up the secondary. When you play Winston, you don't game plan for him running. You keep it in mind, but you game plan to defend the running backs and his pass. So the question then becomes, is Mariota this good because of his talent, or is he this good because of the system he runs? And if you don't want to look at the system itself, look at the defense against the system. Winston, I will admit again, has had a poor year. But his poor year includes an undefeated season, consistent comeback wins, and 24 TD. He has led his team to the playoffs getting ready to play for the National Title, again. Yet this was a poor year for him. I will be happy with either of them, but in my opinion, Winston needs to be our pick. Huge passer, has a resume with pro offense experience, great arm, reads defenses, and is a HUGE leader in the locker room. Forget his off field issues. That shit is so minor in comparison to the talent he has. Immaturity can be cured, which is EXACTLY what he is displaying.
