Like I have tried to explain to you over and over it's not about just the #s, some guys can play when the pressure is great and others cannot. manning falls into the cannot group. He looked absolutely scared on that drive he got picked on and he cost his team a chance to win the SB. My top 10(in no particular order): Montana unitas Marino Graham Brady Elway Dawson Layne Starr Staubach Current guys i'd take over him if I needed a big win: Brady Warner Ben Brees
Did I mention numbers?? How many times do I have to tell you to stop putting words in my mouth. Give me a particular order please Len Dawson and Bobby Layne are not top 10 QBs And Marino being in the Top 10 and not Manning is a joke according to your qualifications.
Len Dawson in the top 10 and no Bradshaw is almost comical. Len Dawson was a third string QB until he jumped leagues. The Chiefs teams that he played on were not only loaded with talent, they had a head coach who was diagraming and inventing an attacking passing O while the rest of the league had their QB's using their fingers to draw up plays on their hands in the huddle. Without Hank Stram and the best OL in football for years Len Dawson doesn't sniff the HOF.
The Chiefs also had a dominating defense. The year they won the Super Bowl the defense gave up 6 points to the Jets 7 points to the Raiders and 7 points to the Vikings in the playoffs. The year they went to SB I they gave up only 7 points to Buffalo. When the Texans won the 1962 AFL Championship the defense forced Blanda to throw 5 INTs and the running game ran for 199 yards.
Dawson and layne were winners. Layne led his team to 3 NFL title games and won 2. Since Layne left the Lions they have won a grand ttoal of ONE playoff game and he left in 1958. Dawson won an AFL Title before SBs and also won a SB title. In an era where TD to INT ratios were even or in the negative for great QBs Dawson had a +56 TD to INT ratio. Again, it's not all about winning championships. That helps but marino played w/ some mediocre talent that he elevated. Marino never had an Edgerrin james, Reggie Wayne, marvin harrison, Dallas Clark,... He reached his SB and faced Joe Montana, he didn't get to face a Rex grossman led team in the SB. Bradshaw's teams weren't loaded w/ talent? i knock Bradshaw down a peg b/c they won a SB where the offense did absolutely nothing. It doesn't matter than Dawson struggled in the NFL, he went to the AFL and became a great QB. I think dawson gets lost in the shuffle of great QBs b/c he was overshadowed by some bigger celebrity QBs of his era.
Bradshaw didn't have similar production from his D's? Most great QBs get help from their defenses as Peyton has as well. No he hasn't had a dominating D but he has had good Ds and that D and running game carried him to his only SB title in 2006.
Dawson gets lost in the shuffle because he wasn't a great QB he had overwhelming talent and a great system that was years ahead of what anyone else was doing. In conventional systems he couldn't get off the bench. I know you hate Namath but Sony Jurgenson was 10 times the QB that Dawson was. Bradshaw produced big time in big spots with huge plays. He's teams also faced equally great competition.
What does Bobby Layne have to do with the Lions lack of success since 1958? Layne threw 6 INTs in the 1954 NFL Championship Game. Marino's 1985 team was good and he choked away a chance to get back to the Super Bowl. In every postseason loss in Marino's career except one he threw 2 or more INTs. If you are going to say that Manning doesn't play well in the postseason then why do you give Marino a pass? Manning has elevated teammates as well. He made Harrison and Wayne as good as they were and elevated Stokley, Garcon and Collie.
I know alot of Namath fans like to knock Dawson b/c he wasn't an INT machine but did dawson ever have wideouts like Maynard and sauer? were his Rbs better than Boozer and Snell? Did he have a Pete Lammons? KC didn't face equally great competition? The Minny team dawson faced was much better than the one Bradshaw faced and Bradshaw was awful against Minny so I guess they didn't face equally great competition.
He doesn't have anything to do w/ their lack of success, it is a point to show how futile that franchise became after he left. he had an awful championship game but he won 2 of 3 of them. The QB position was very different in that era, you compare QBs against the others in their era. The Miami team of '85 was good not great, they blew a chance to get to the SB and get killed by Chicago but how many times has manning blown chance to advance in postseason? Marino never had the talent around him(relative to the era) than Manning has had that's why I give him a pass. Manning made harrison and wayne too:lol: Stokely had plenty of good years, he had his best year w/ Indy but he also played their for 4 years, his next best years came elsewhere. Garcon is a beast. Manning does so much, he makes so many players great buit when the chips are down he can't make the big plays. What is your excuse for manning blowing the SB? Surely you agree it's a much bigger choke than Brady '07, right?
Dawson had Otis Taylor and Frank Pitts along with Mike Garrett, Homes and McVea in the backfield. He also had a huge OL which was without question the best in the AFL for years. He also played on the best single defensive team in the AFL. They had the No. 1 rushing O in the league when they beat MN and they ranked 6th in passing in a 10 team league. They were no. 1 in every defensive catagory. Their running attack was much better than the Jets running attack and Otis Taylor was one of the first prototypical big WR in football. He was an outright beast. Bradshaw has 4 SB rings he went through Oakland and Dallas and was stellar in many of those ball games including huge downfield bombs for scores that were outright game changers. Hank Stram invented play action and it worked because they dominated in their rushing game and had a huge WR with break away speed you could lay the ball up to on play action.
Bobby Layne in the postseason 1952 NFL Western Divisional Playoff vs. Rams 9/21 144 yds 0 TDs 4 INTs (the Lions won 31-21) 1952 NFL Championship vs. Browns 7/9 68 yds 0 TDs 0 INTs (the Lions won 17-7) 1953 NFL Championship vs. Browns 12/25 179 yds 1 TD 2 INTs (the Lions won 17-16) 1954 NFL Championship vs. Browns 18/42 177 yds 0 TDs 6 INTs (the Browns won 56-10)
Burford was a 1 time pro bowler Arbanas 5 time Taylor 3 time Garrett 2 time Namath had: Snell 3 time Mathis 2 time Maynard 4 time and a HOFer Sauer 4 time Lammons 1 time Which group would you take?
Just because you compare them against other QBs in their era doesn't mean they are top 10 QBs. I would say in his era he was behind Graham and Norm Van Brocklin of his ear. They would have been killed by the same Bears team they defeated only a few weeks earlier right? Marino choked that game away. Marino had great receiving targets his entire career. He never had the RBs Manning had though. Harrison was pedestrian at best until Manning hit his full stride in 1999. Garcon is a beast because of Manning. Did you not see Wayne slow up on the route or not? Clearly you wouldn't....
