Given an even set of Personnel I'd still take Young.... He's a better all around player. AAMOF after revisiting Young's stats, I'd say this. Considering Polian having the Rules changed to suit Manning and Polians style of team building. Young was CLEARLY the better football player. Averaged a couple 300 yards on the ground a year. Led the NFL in Adj/ YPA 6 times. Two time MVP, Super Bowl Champion....and so on...... And let's not forget, Young's stats came OUTSIDE in s#!tty weather half the time. Right now, for Peyton Manning the honest bar in all time greatness is set at Steve Young. With a host of others on the otherside of that list.
No...I guess you get to be a two time NFL MVP by not being an elite player. from 91-94 he posted QB ratings over 100. BEFORE THE MANNING RULE CHANGES. Young Posted some great stats, much like Manning. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm?redir
Young was all stats just like Manning. Young inherited a dynasty and if no for jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones screwing things up he likely wouldn't have won a single SB. He also had the greatest WR in the history of the modern game to throw to and as great as the weapons have been for peyton he didn't have anyone like Rice. let's also not forget young was drafted by TB and couldn't cut it there so he sulked his way to SF b/c he thought winning there would be easy but it wasn't. Young is not as good as Manning.
Great stats and great chokes in postseason and where were these great stats when he didn't have elite talent to work w/ in tampa bay?
Manning is a student of the game and Young simply didn't have his head in it. When he got around a proffessional organization and grew up he was as good as it gets in the NFL. He's over all mobility, accracy, arm and understanding of what he was doing was superb. For a few years he was as good as anyone who played in the league at any time. Manning to his credit has always done the hard work. Young as a mature NFL QB was great.
Are you seriously injecting TB into the equation? That's childish and beneath you. Young was just as good in TB, as Manning was his rookie (3-13) season. They built a team around (and for) him specifically...but your argument makes my point. They are extraordinarily similar..however, Young was a far more complete player (4K rushing yards), Led in Many passing categories without having the rules changed...More than Manning has, in fact.
Greatest? Ok..Maybe Rice is....(and considering the new rules I'd agree) But under the new paradigm having Harrison and Wayne and Clark...and Addai? As in 2006... FAIL.
yea, and he won one championship with more talent around him than montana. young was a good athelete, but he was not to the level of montana. montana won 4 superbowls, and never choked with the game on the line...cant say that for young considering dallas owned him most of the time. i will say that the dallas team he faced may have been better than the team montana faced, but look at all the talent around young for heaven sake. the 90's were dominated by two nfc teams as far as talent goes. if montana had youngs talented teams he would have won more than four superbowls, and probably altered dallas's fantastic run during the 90's.
That's not the argument. No disputing that fact. The argument is, RIGHT NOW...Manning is not quite on the level of Steve Young...and to get into the discussion of all time greatness he needs to get past Young.
In that sentence you implied that Elway was a choker. That's not an appropriate label for Elway if you consider his entire career. Sure, every great QB is going to have some average and maybe even poor efforts in big games. Even Montana had a few playoff clunkers. Elway's playoff defeats- 1983: Denver got smoked 31-7 at Seattle. Steve DeBerg started for Denver. Elway came off the bench. 1984: With three minutes left in a tie game he threw an interception in a divisional playoff vs Pittsburgh. The Steelers went on to win 24-17. You can definitely call that a choke. 1986, 1987, 1989: lost Super Bowl when team got absolutely smoked 1991: Elway threw a key interception in 3rd quarter of AFC title game and then left game in 4th quarter due to injury. Buffalo won 10-7 1993: The Denver defense was awful. The loss was not on Elway. L.A. won 42-24. 1996: A late rally by Elway fell short. Again, this one was on the Denver defense. Jaguars 30-27. *** The guy led a 98-yard TD drive in a hostile environment to send a Championship Game to overtime. The Broncos then won in the extra session 23-20 over Cleveland in January 1987. The next year he again beat Cleveland in the AFC title game. It was a classic game, but Denver never trailed. The game was tied at 31-31, however. Elway helped put the Broncos ahead 38-31 with a few minutes remaining. He had comeback playoff wins vs Pittsburgh, Houston, Kansas City, and the Jets. (It should be noted that although he completed several key passes in the 2nd half of the Jets game, he really did not have a good game.)
Payton has had pretty much the same career so far as Brett Favre. Sans the three million interceptions. Pretty good teams, won a ring, lost a ring...and around they go. Where will he be rated? That is always up for speculation. If people were rated on championships, then Marino is really down the list.
I'm a Manning fan and he's the best QB i've ever seen and really wanted him to win yesterday just to stick it to his haters and put him as possibly the greatest ever. But as of right now the 9-9 record has to stick and most notably the INT in a big spot. Elway won 2 rings late in his career, and Manning is showing no signs of slowing down, we'll see what happens.
Manning got much better in year 2, did Steve? and Peyton was a true rookie while Steve had played in the USFL which was a huge advantage as the USFL was a really good league. Young was a better runner, that's it. Both struggle in big games but Steve was handed a dynasty and did less w/ that than what Peyton has done w/ Indy. The rules changed long before Peyton. He also had one of the best TEs ever in Brent Jones, a great OL, a borderline HOFer in Ricky Watters, he had a nice complimentary WR in John Taylor early in his caerer and some guy named terrell ownes later in his career- it wasn't just Rice. People get confused b/c they see 3 SB losses but he took inferior teams to SBs and lost to far superior teams. The NFC was so much better than the AFC back then. When he won his SBs he was older(still good) and that team was more fueled by TD BUT that doesn't change what he did to get to SBs in the 80s when those teams had no business being close.
Elway's drive against Houston in the 1991 playoffs was as good as the one he had against the Browns in 1986. I was a big fan of Elway's growing up. In fact he's my favorite All Time QB.
Don't forget if not for the offensive PI call he probably throws one in the EZ on that last drive. I'm not gonna say Manning choked because the DB made a great play on the ball. That being said the best defense to playing Manning is having a good offense. Brees was the better QB on Sunday and that's what it came down to. The guy is still a top 5 QB but everybody including Brady have a long way to go before they catch Montana and Elway.
and he almost threw one moments before the INT for TD. he clearly was flustered and while he was having a good game to that point(that throw to Clark was as beautiful a pass as you will ever see) he came up small in the games biggest moment. I don't think manning is top 5, he's somewhere around 10-15 in my opinion. I would have moved him up closer to the top 5-7 had he played well but he cost his team a chance to win w/ that pick and that knocks him back a bit. I have Brady ahead of Elway but behind Montana and I think Brady is in the discussion w/ Montana and the others in the top 5(I have Elway 6th).
I just look at the guys Elway played with, Vance Johnson (he's now a used car salesman in Grand Junction) Gaston Green, Sammy Winder, Rickey Natiel. Granted Brady didn't have top flight weapons either but his defenses were always better then Elways. It's hard to compare eras but from 1980 on (my era) I'd say it's probably Montana, Elway, Brady, Marino, Kelly, Manning, Favre, Warner, Moon.
