You're right, the o-line was one of the best in the NFL that year. In the super bowl however, they were fucking useless. Light, Koppen, and Mankins especially looked confused and were just physically dominated. Part of that goes on Brady for not adjusting, but iirc they tried plenty of screens and short passes to Welker (11 recptions). The Giants defense was just more athletic that day... I think that goes on the line more than Brady. He had an 82.5 rating and didn't turn the ball over. Not on the level of awfulness Manning put up in some of his post-season failures.
It's unavoidable, really. "I am addressing everything being said no matter how nonsensical like trasjing Brady b/c he le an 80 yd drive whole dinking and dunking." "you have noc ase here aginst what I have been arguing." Geez. Why should anyone take the time to interpret this drivel? junc, maybe "cold hard football facts" should hire you. They also think their opinions are facts, and they also worship Brady and bash Peyton Manning.
Oh, so you deliberately misled the people reading this thread by conveniently not mentioning that the authors of that website are New England homers. I don't value arguments made by people who are very clearly biased. It's like junc. They cherry pick what information they include in their arguments. A useful website wouldn't make up their minds before looking at the information. Then again, a useful website wouldn't call itself "cold hard football facts" or brand their biased opinions as facts. That's a junc tactic.
They?re both great and Future HOFer, but I can?t get rid of that Idea, that Brady?s 'just' the best System-QB ever.
I love how you guys jump at the chance to blame every playoff loss on Manning but when Brady fails it's always someone else's fault (the Defense, the recievers or the offensive line).
If Brady is a system QB, I will eat my shoe. System QBs do not accomplish what he has done to this point. Have you seen him throw the ball?
hehe, Brady's better at it In all seriousness...The Patriots offense is a well oiled machine. I just disagree that it's that way solely because of Brady. I think the offense benefits his skill set. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, I just feel the other QB in this discussion has been asked to do more and he has consistently produced.
Since getting decent receivers, Brady is, and back by facts, one of the best QBs in league history....especially the long ball. After years to throwing to the likes of NFL Stars such as David Patten and Troy Brown and Rechede Caldwell, he got a chance to play with some above average players. Maybe you forgot him destroying us: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8022b3bb/Patriots-38-Jets-14 2 short passes and a bomb, but the bomb was perfectly thrown with 3 people following him. Randy Moss is a great receiver, but a dink and dunk guy doesn't make that throw.
Let?s put it that way, I?m sure Peyton would have won the Championships, when he would have been with the Pats, but I?m not sure, if Brady would have won that Championship with the Colts.
I don't have all day to worry about typos. I type faster than I should but any reasonably intelligent person can figure out what the typos are saying. What have I cherry picked exactly? By weighing the performance in big games more than regular season games? No one has countered my points effectively in this thread. Are you serious? That is a staple of the Manning backers. EVERY time thye lose it's someone else's fault. Brady was bad against den in '05 and deserved blame, he didn't deserve it for the Colts and Giants losses. Manning hasn't been the man most responsible in every playoff loss but he gets all the praise so when his high powere O can only score less than 14 PPG in playoff losses that falls on him for not leading them to more points. Manning had Moss for ONE year, Peyton has had elite weapons his entire career. They are not prducts of Peyton, marvin harrison was successful before peyton, Reggie Wayne was a 1st rd pick as was James, Addai, Faulk, Harrison, Gonzalez, Clark, ...
Manning never won the big game until the defense came. Belichick never had success until Brady had to start. Call him a system QB all you want. He has the best record during the regular season and has thrown for over 50 tds a season. If "system" QBs can accomplish that then there would be alot more of them.
The Colts D in the playoffs has given up less than 2 PPG more than NE. The difference isn't much, if he was w/ NE he would have played w/ medicore talent on O and would have been turning it over more than he has w/ the elite talent he has had. There's no way NE has 3 SBs w/ Peyton. MAYBE they break through and win 1 w/ Peyton.
Yeah, I remember that. And Moss had to track the errant pass down. Like I said earlier A majority of his passes traveled inside 5 yards past the LOS in 2007.
Everytime Manning loses? I think you guys exaggerate the reason they lose when you put complete blame on him. He shares in the responsibility, but it's not his fault when two of his receivers fumble the ball, or the defense can't get off the field or when his kicker misses a makeable FG. But when it happens to Brady it's the recievers fault for dropping a pass or the defenses fault Manning leads a come back victory (it's impossible to think Manning could have actually beaten them) or it's because of Brady that Vinateri kicks ridiculously tough FGs to tie or win games or it's the OL fault that Brady couldn't get the job done in the SB, or...what was the excuse for his poor performance in the two SD playoff games I forget?
Brady led the league in pretty much every statistical passing category in 2007. Do you really want go down this route?
Are you serious? That ball was placed as perfectly as could be. All? No, no one player deserves all blame but he deserves most of it in most of their postseason losses. 1999: vs. Ten lose 19-16, they scored 9 points in the competitive portion of the game. They tacked on a late TD when the game was basically over. 19-42, 227 yds, no TDs 2000: 17 points against a legendary choking D in Miami. 17-32, 194 yds, 1 TD 2002: SHUT OUT against us. The D was terrible too that gamne giving up 41 but one thing I do know is that it is possible to win a game giving up 41 points but it's not possible to win not scoring a point. 14-31, 137 yds, 0 TDs, 2 INT 2003: 4 INTs at NE. 23-47, 237 yds, 1 TD, 4 INTs 2004: led his O to 3 points. 27-42, 238 yds, 0 TD, 1 INT 2005: Given multiple gifts including the overturning of the Polamamlu INT and the Bettis fumble returned to midfield. led O to just 18 pts at home. 22-38, 290 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT(really 1 INT) 2007: 2 killer INTs cost them points each trip and they lost by 4. 33-38, 402 yds, 3 TDs, 2 INTs 2008: led to 1 TD(on broken play) in 2nd half, couldn't get 1st down to win game. 25-42, 310, 1 TD It is his fault when he can't keep his O on the field. He had 10 possessions, ok they had 2 fumbles- what about the other 8? Yes it is b/c of Brady that AV was put in position to win 2 SBs.
Is that a threat or something? I've already discussed his 2007 season. Big deal. His passes were short. The top 3 recievers for the Pats in 2007 Moss 98 rec 1493 yds 12.2 yards the ball traveled past the LOS to Moss Welker 112 rec 1175 yds 4.8 yards the ball traveled past the LOS to Welker Faulk 47 rec 383 yds 0.9 yards the ball traveled past the LOS to Faulk For comparison purposes Wayne 77 rec 1210 yds 11.8 yards the ball traveled past the LOS to Wayne Harrison 86 rec 1113 yds 10.1 yards the ball traveled past the LOS to Wayne Stokley 68 rec 1077 yds 9.8 yards the ball traveled past the LOS to Stokley Do you see the difference between a dink and dunker and a down the field passer? Or are you still uber-impressed with Brady's numbers. Manning threw 49 TDs on 81 less passes than Brady threw in 2007 and he thre 50 TDs.
