Who caught 112 passes in 2007 because he was their underneath guy. That's what the Pats have done ever since Brady became their starter. Faulk caught 47 passes out of the backfield that year. It's not a coincidence that NE would have 4 of the top 50 players in YAC yardage in 2007. It was a check down and Keller was wide open. The degree of difficulty was minor. Keller made the play after he made the catch.
NE did NOT win that game because of Brady. They won it because of their defense and Vinateri bailed him out. Kelly left it up to the kicker and Norwood missed. The Giants kept the Bills O off the field but when they got in they capitalized and put points on the board (your complaint of what Manning didn't do). Kelly was a much better field general than Brady (one of the things I think Brady excels at) had a better / stronger arm who moved the ball down the field with his arm whereas Brady plays in a system that has a lot of dump offs and screen passes. I wonder if you polled the experts who they would say had the more impressive drive in those two Super Bowls to set up the FG attempts.
Their defense gave up 2 quick TDs in the 4th qtr to blow a 14 pt lead. Brady then led one of the greatest drives of all time in SB history. How you can minimize this is beyond me. i expect that from some posters here but I know you know your stuff. You are infatuated w/ throwing the ball downfield for some reason. I am infatuated w/ winning- I guess this is where we disagree. Kelly, like Manning, had elite offensive talent around him in Buffalo. Brady only had an elite WR for ONE season of his career and he never had a RB as good as Thurman. Kelly was great but you guys talk about Cassell coming in for Brady- let's not forget who the QB was in the comeback against Houston then the Pitt game the following week to get them to the '92 title game.
This might be exactly where we disagree. I like QBs like Elway, Montana, Unitas who put teams on their back and drive them to victory. Think about the greatest drives in football history. 1958 NFL Championship - Unitas drove them down for the Game tying FG. He tried to get the ball into the endzone but had to settle for a chip shot as time ran out. Then after a Giants punt in OT, he and Berry marched them down and left no doubt by guiding them into the end zone. 1981 NFC Championship Game - Montana drove the 49ers from their own 11 down the field for the GW TD. 1986 AFC Championship Game - Elway led "The Drive" by beating the Browns defense with great pass after great pass. Then threw a laser to Mark Jackson for the Game Tying TD. Then led them down the field for the GW FG. These aren't dump off passes he was throwing. Super Bowl XXIII - Montana blitzed the Bengals defense with completion after completion (not dump offs either mind you) and then found John Taylor on a beautiful slant pattern in the end zone. The drive that led to the GW FG by Vinateri was nothing but a bunch of dump off passes that put Vinateri into position to kick a 48 yd FG. It is no where near as impressive as those drives above, and it's not nearly as impressive as the one Roethlisberger led this past Super Bowl. For me I give the credit to a QB who beats the defense.. Not one that dumps the ball off and let's the receivers do all the work. At the end of the day the Patriots won. To me Brady didn't win it for them. I think that's why we disagree. It's fine, but I don't think you should diminish Peyton Manning because I feel if you need a TD to win or tie, I'd rather have Manning than Brady.
Wh don't you like Brady then? he has put teams on his back and driven them to victory. The single biggest difference btw NE and Indy this decade has been QB play in January. Is it Brady's fault he only needed a FG in certain situations? Actuslly most of Montana's completions on that drive in SB XXII were short passes.
Only one pass was in the flat. There were no screen passes. Everything else was 5-8 yards down the field. He threw two big time passes to Rice and an 8 yard pass to Craig before hitting the game winner to Taylor. Brady's drives have all been on the legs of the receivers who caught the swing passes, screen passes and flat passes. He's not been the one who drove them down the field.
And besides...We're beyond the Manning debate. Brady shouldn't go down as one of the top 5 QBs ever when he runs a system that is designed to get the ball out of his hands to allow the receivers make the plays. He runs it well no doubt about it. But I question how much of their success has been because of him.
Brady is certainly top 5 as of now, if he cannot recover from his knee and has some subpar years he can slip but as of now he is top 5 and climbing.
No way 1. Unitas 2. Montana 3. Staubach 4. Graham 5. Elway 6. Marino 7. Manning 8. Brady <- at best.. I personally think Kelly was better but I'm throwing you a bone here. 9. Baugh 10. Young 11. Favre 12. Bradshaw 13. Aikman 14. Kelly 15. Starr 16. Dawson 17. Tarkenton 18. Namath 19. Moon 20. Stabler
If you don't think Manning should be diminished (which I agree with), why try to diminish Brady? Against the Panthers he led the team to 2 TDs and a game winning field goal in the 4th quarter. And he was hardly dinking and dunking. The play that set up the FG was a pass of over 20 yards. I think avoiding the rush (Rams almost sacked him twice in that SB on the game winning drive) and getting the ball to the right players IS leading your team. The idea that Brady didn't win it or lead the team is kind of silly.
How'd Vinatieri bail him out? Against the Rams they had 1:25 left and no timeouts, yet he moved the team down the field from inside his own 20.
I think you've done more than "suggest". I won't challenge the arrogant part, though. You're right about something, for once. Since you obviously don't remember the game very well, maybe you should watch a tape or at least look at the play by play. Had they not kicked the field goal, that "meaningless TD" would've tied the game. Even with the FG, Philly had the ball down a FG in the final minute. It was a difficult position, but they did end up having a crack at it, before McNabb threw a pick.
Because I think Brady is given WAY too much credit for those SB victories. I think I'm giving him a fair assesment. I also acknowledged that he played great in the SB win against the Panthers. He avoided the rush once and only made one big time throw (to Brown) who took the ball out of bounds. There were 3 dump offs over the middle (2 to Redmond and 1 to Wiggins) and a swing pass to Redmond.
They call that making good decisions. He would be better if he had tried to force the ball down field into coverage? The Pats win "Zero" SBs without Brady. They were on the way to a 2nd straight down year (0-2) when he came in for Bledsoe. I won't argue about who's better, him or Manning, because it is a matter of opinion. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on what makes a great QB. Peace
Was it a last minute GW FG? NO, it was a FG that extended the lead to 10 points in the 4th qtr. They were on their 4 w/ 46 secs left and NO timeouts. It wasn't a difficult position it was an impossible position. Thanks for chiming in, you really posted ground breaking info What was NE doing before he became the starter and what has BB ever done as a HC w/o him? Brady is UNDERRATED and doesn't get the credit he deserves.
If you're going to critisize my list put out a top 20 of your own. Players that you can make a case that belong in the Top 20 Fouts McNabb Jurgenson Tittle <- Definitely should be in I shouldn't have missed it. Layne see above Van Brocklin Griese Anderson Kilmer
