What were Mangini's sins? Did the players not like him? Did he not change the atmosphere after Herm got traded? Did he do a bad job of developing all of the young players the jets have (with the exception of Gholston)? Was it a sin that his secondary with the exception of Revis and Rhodes was the worst in the NFL? How would any other coach have controlled Favre so he didn't throw 22 picks? He was fired based on a 5 game window. In those 5 games he had a qb play as poorly as any in the league. I think Woody would have gone crazy if he even considered benching Favre. Favre's play basically killed the team. He averaged two turnovers every week and he barely converted third down after third down. Defenses pretty much knew that if they stacked the line and stopped TJ that Favre would throw pick after pick. Favre the last 4 seasons has been horrible in his last 5 games, this was not due to poor coaching it was due to the player being old and tired. I see many problems with the defense. The problem was a combination of personnel and scheme. Basically having a shell of Davis Harris for most of the year really hurt the defense. The linebackers were too big and slow to cover anyone. The secondary was just awful, players like Law, Barrett, Drew Coleman, Eric Smith will be following the Adrien Clarke route of never playing in the NFL again. The combination of having a horrible secondary and a front 7 that barely beat anyone one on one getting to the qb caused real problems. When they rushed four the qb had 5 seconds. When they rushed six they usually got picked apart. It was just a bad defense against the pass and while Mangini deserves blame, the players are not nearly as good as everyone thinks. Mangini had plenty of questionable in game decisions but almost every coach in the NFL can be second guessed every week. If they replace him with Cowher I will be happy, but if bring in a retread like shotty sr I will see it as a step backwards. Mangini was fired for PSLS and because Favre won a power struggle.
GUYS C'MON. Mangini was in charge of the defense. He was here for 3 years and accumulated all the players he wanted for his 3-4 scheme. The result? The defense was a complete and utter mess this season. End of story. I've never seen a pass defense so bad. And what does it say about your team when the whole run defense depends on one player. I'm sorry but you can blame Favre all you want (and he does deserve some of the blame), but saying that Favre cost Mangini his job is nonsense. Complete NONSENSE.
Man, being a journalist myself I can sense a big amount of bs here. I think this is a guy making assumptions about the team after all that has happened (And I usually like Cimini). Mangini did name his son after Brett, he said it several times. He made him pass a lot and was geniunely ecstatic when it was announced he was coming to the team. (almost all of us were, to be honest). It's like any baseball manager who had gotten Roger Clemens a couple of years ago, old but still a legend, they will be really happy and try to make it work. And remember something else, the starter was going to be Clemens, not Pennington. Maybe it wasn't Mangini who knocked on Woody's door and told him "hey, I think we should go for Brett", but he was for sure happy when the owner told him of his plans.
The points in this article that I do not have any trouble believing are that Mangini did not want Favre. Mangini always said that they wanted to build through the draft. So why would Mangini want to give up a high draft choice for a guy that wouldn't commit to more than one year. That makes no sense whatsoever. It goes against Mangini's past history. I think Mangini and Tannenbaum were pressured by Johnson to create a buzz about the team, so that he could start making his money back on his new stadium. And that is the reason for the spending spree in the offseason. Johnson dumped a ton of dough into this stadium, and now the economy took a dump. Johnson hasn't been selling PSL's or luxury suites like he thought he would, so now his next step is to try to land Cowher to create more buzz. He's actually acting like Leon Hess did in the early nineties, when free agency first started. He's acting reckless.
I'm not happy with it now. Most of the players we have on defense are soft and weak minded. They mirrored their coach. Honestly, other than Revis, Jenkins, and Harris I wouldn't mind seeing every single player on defense replaced. Obviously that can't happen in one offseason, but I'm just saying it to show how poorly I think of our defense. (I'm willing to give Rhodes one more season, too).
Tanny went and got Jenkins, Pace, Gholston, and Lowery. We already had Revis, Ellis, K. Coleman, Harris, Barton, Thomas. Where was the pass rush? Are you going to really pin the second half collapse of this defense on a perceived weakness at safety (news flash - Elam played great) and #2 CB? Where was the pass rush? That is 100% on the CS.
I think if I really posted how I felt about this whole situation I would get lambasted to no end. The main person at fault here is Woody Johnson: dumb fu ck of an owner who is more interested trying to sell PSLs and jerseys. Pennington was not the answer for this team. Neither was Favre. Guys clamoring for us to "run the ball more" don't realize our posessions were so limited the last 5 games that our offense could absolutely not get into any rythym. Brett Favre was pretty much the worst thing I've ever seen in a Jets uniform post-Tenn. Half the time it seemed like when we went shotgun it was an all out go because Favre still hadn't learned the playbook. Nothing was clicking. Before Brett, I knew we weren't going to go deep in the playoffs this year and just wanted some sort of consistency from this team; possibly see some nice progression from Klemens. I kept my expectations low. The Jets were finally showing progress in all fronts, and I was in this for the long haul. I would not even expect a deep run for the playoffs until the 5th year of the Mangini era. This was suppose to be a growing experience. But obviously that has changed. I laugh when I read that people online think Mangini's players had "given up" on him. Given up? When Cotchery, Jenkins, Woody, Rhodes, Revis had said the complete opposite and were baffled at the firing? At most I expected Sutton gone for his ultra-conservative scheme. Maybe Schotty. But the real culprit was Favre. I can't excuse how shitty we played the last 5 games. Hell I believe Mangini is at fault for poor adjustments. Defense? Sure. But if Mangini was guilty of one thing, it was this: he didn't bench Favre and allowed the prima donna to tank the season down the stretch. Any other quarterback not wearing #4 would have been benched after that horrible San Francisco game. Clemens, I'm certain, would have been a better option down the stretch against Buffalo, Seattle, and hell, maybe even against Miami. But this is New York, where we can't go on losing periods without overreacting. This season would have been a great learning experience for our 37 year old head coach. Do I expect him to learn from the ultra-conservatism? Yes. This season was the kind of season that would have given him a swift kick in the ass and left such a bad taste in his mouth that he would have not been bound to repeat the same mistakes next year. We would have went through ANOTHER SUCCESSFUL DRAFT this year with the goal of improving our depth in certain positions which would have been great for us going forward next year. But Alas, Woody needs to sell his precious jerseys and his precious PSLs. Cowher will be a great coach for this team. But the fact that it took 3 years to get where we are because of the level of character/high standards we have for our players? That kind of pisses me off, and sets back the building process for this franchise once again.
Someone who actually agrees with me. Of course you'll be called an idiot for this post. Considering Mangini's age and stepping into NY as an unproven coach I think he did a hell of a job. It's become cool to make some fat joke about Mangini and how he's a joke. The bottom line is that this guy is going to be a top of the line coach down the road and unless we get Cowher we will probably be taking a downgrade.
Yeah, that's what I asked two pages ago. This "we learned yesterday" crap without attributing it to any one smells like some vindictive bullshit, meant to stir the pot.
That could all be true,but Favre is not responcible for the Pass rush. Our Pass Rush was possibly the worst I have ever seen this year. And nobody changed it. You can't hope to win games when you let every QB pick your D apart.
There are others who have constantly expressed most if not all of your views. And yes, they do get lambasted here. But for the most part they've been right the whole time, without even having to say "I told you so."
No one deserves to be called an idiot for their opinion. In the NFL today,you don't get long rebuild times. mangini could have easily saved his own ass by making sure his team was able to beat atleast 1 of the shitty teams they played down the stretch. You don't beat Buffalo when they were good,NE and tenn,and then lose to 4 beatable teams with the Division in your hands. That is certainly grounds for a canning.
Like hell it's 100% the coaching staff. What about the GM? Isn't he responsible for bringing in guys that can rush the QB. Weren't Pace, Thomas, Gholston, and Harris supposed to be the answer? Didn't the GM trade the only blasted pass rusher this team has had in the past ten years or so? Putting pressure on the passer is not sending 8 guys each time. You've got to be able to get pressure from the front seven without blitzing every time. So how the heck is it 100% the fault of the coaching staff, and zero the players and GM? That's just an absurd assertion.
Hey, I wanted to keep Mangini....but he wasn't great this season. His biggest faults were 1) not being aggressive on defense; 2) underutilization of the run (especially underuse of Leon); 3) allowing Favre to throw deep with a clearly shot arm. I do think he got a raw deal and will be a good HC somewhere. I think there is too little patience around here. I agree that Favre killed Mangini, but his conservative game-calling in the home stretch was a factor.
#19 fenwyr Totally Addicted fenwyr's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV vCash: 25 Default Quote: Originally Posted by abyzmul View Post Pressure from ownership? Sorry Abyz, but I smell BS from Cimini on this one. He was always a Mangini apologist. Mangini cost Mangini his job, not Favre. What in gods name was so promising about him? Under his watch we won every game we got up on team's early (usually bad teams), and lost almost every close game due to the lack of half time adjustments. __________________ Bill Cowher + Brett Ratliff = The Future fenwyr is offline Report Post Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message fenwyr View Public Profile Send a private message to fenwyr Find More Posts by fenwyr Add fenwyr to Your Buddy List Unread Today, 05:36 PM #20 Kenny TheGangGreen.com Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2007 vCash: 2000 Default Mangini is a freaken defensive cordinator and the defensive schemes all year were attrocious.. The players folded down the stretch.. im sorry but Mangini deserved to be fired i have to agree with the last two posters. is sutton gone yet?
No, The Jets always suck against bad teams and play well against good teams. They play to the level of competition their against.
