Absolutely not comparing them to Wayne or Harrison. But what im saying is they are as good the Patriots receivers during their run over the last few years. You will see that Cotchery will be something really special. Herm had him sitting on the bench for no good reason but that is another story. What im saying is even if Chad had an elite receiver he does not have the talent to get the ball down the field to him. Look at how much better Santana Moss is now with an old Qb who can throw the long ball. A speed burner on this team would be a waste and Santana Moss proved that. You must admit Coles and Cotchery made a large majority of their T/d's and yardage on ten yard passes that they made great plays on. What if they had a Qb that could hit them down the field on a regular basis. That would really open it up for them to run wild and it would open the running game as well.
I believe that Mangini will be very fair to all of his player, and show them their collective respect. He will not be biased (IE:H. Edwards), and play the best player at their skill position. You work hard, and show your the best on the team at your position, you will play. Nuff said. EDIT: I have not read every post in this thread obviously, but... How ironic would it be for the two best QB's from Marshall being at risk to seeing the majority of their time on the bench in 07'? Expecially with the movie that just hit theaters recently.. Ackward?
Are we going to play the stupid stat game. I could come back and say where did he have the most receptions and yards at etc, etc! The fact of the matter is Noodle arm had his burner and if he would have played someplace else he could do the same things he did in 05 every year. He even went out of his way not to diss chad when they gave him the Chance. Are we really going to talk stats with Chads 17 t/d and 16 Int? That stat alone should have him headed for the bench!
Simplistically, without taking into account that at that time, this was a Run First offense with Hackett and Handcuffs Herm running the show....But 17/16 coming off of a Second Shoulder surgery, and making the playoffs, and you want to bench the Guy???? The fact of the matter is, throwing the deep ball has little to do with arm stregnth, its anticipation and timing. the Stregnth comes in to play on the medium routes (20 yards in the air...) and yes, that part of Chads game is lacking, but every players game lacks something, and you find ways to play to any players stregnths and Pennington has more positives than 90% of the QBs in the NFL. Secondarily, a deep threat opens up the Middle of the field, for both, the short passing game, and the running game....The QBs ability to throw the Home run ball notwithstanding.
I agree with you regarding the deep ball has alot to do with timing but the thing that bothers me the most is his inability to throw a 10-15 yard out pattern. He has a thing goin with coles but unfortunately against the better teams who can go man to man we loose out because they stack the line and he can not make the throws he needs to make. If we are to beat the elite teams like the Chargers or Ravens in the playoffs he has got to make the out throws that Brady made when they beat them this year and put the fear in the Defense enough to get the corners off the line of scrimmage when they play against us. And a lack of arm stregnth plus lack of mobility against the super bowl caliber teams spells disaster. Most Qb's with no arm stregnth at least have mobiltiy.
My take on any Chad issue is this: Chad to me is nothing more than a "stop gap" for the Jets. Of course, any NFL team can win with a stop gap QB if he has the tools to work with around him. We are surrounding Chad with those tools right now. We'll see what he can do. Do I think we can and WILL upgrade from Chad soon? Yep, at least I hope so.
If the jets could have beaten top tier teams consistently, we would have three rings instead of the Pats and be called a dynasty. There are very few teams that beat a top tier team consistently and it does not all fall on the QB.
'04 in the playoffs, Chad was playing with a torn rotator cuff. Can you not see how this may not cause him to play at his highest level. How many other QB's have won a playoff game then had career threatening shoulder surgery after the season. What was our record and team like before Chad got hurt?
No, he can't see that. None of them see it, they are blinded by their hatred of our own QB. Every loss is Chad's fault, never mind that we were down 14 in the New England game with 5:00 left and Brady just went on an 8-minute drive to ice the game. Chad's pick lost the game. It does not matter that he was risking his career in the 2004 playoffs while John Abraham was on the bench working out his future finances, it's all Chad's fault. If not for the blind loyalty we all show to Chad on this message board, the Jets surely by now would have gone to Quarterbacks R Us and easily brought in the guy who can beat elite defenses by himself year after year after year. It's all Chad Pennington's fault, can't you see that? Winning 10 games in the NFL and getting to the playoffs is a given, we need a guy who can do more every time, dammit!!
Indy has consistently beaten good teams and they have no rings. The Pats did what they did for a bunch of reasons, including the fact that they have a world class QB. A bunch of other things went into the rings too though. There are about a half dozen teams in football that consistently beat good teams. Steelers, Colts, Patriots and maybe San Diego or Denver in the AFC. The Eagles are really the only NFC team with that kind of track record at the moment. One of the things that you will find on these teams across the board is consistently good QB play. Down seasons by the QB's on these teams, like Roethlisberger and the Denver QB's this year, usually lead to subpar seasons. If you track the Steelers, as an example, over the years you will find that the seasons in which they had very good records and beat a lot of good teams were also the seasons in which the QB was having a very good year. One of the other things that you will find on these teams is they all feature QB's with a gun. Not necessarily a bomber's arm, but the ability to throw a frozen rope on the out patterns and up the seams. One of the reasons that SD let Drew Brees go was they were not sure if he had a class A arm or not, and doubly unsure after the surgery.
Yea but the problem is with chad we can not even compete at their level. Do you think with Chad at Qb and a supporting cast he can play at the level necessary to beat the Colts, Ravens, Chargers or Patriots? I do not put us on the level with teams like the Bengals, Steelers and Chiefs (despite Herm). At least the second tier teams have a chance against the elite. They all have better qb's than we do.
He beat Indy and chargers in playoffs. Beat pittsburgh but herm and kicker lost game. Has not beat pats in playoffs, but has twice in new england during regular season. Bengals and Steelers never made playoffs with their elite QB's and Chiefs looked awful in playoff appearance.
We lost by 3 points to the eventual SB winning team. That's "not even competing"? Chad is not as bad as some make him out to be. Granted, he's not as good as others make him out to be either. I think people don't realize just how hard it is to find an elite, carry-the-team-on-his-back QB. If they were that easy to find, every team would have one. He's not a piece of shit like some make him out to be, but he's also not the second-coming of Christ as others make him out to be either. He's somewhere in the middle along with a lot of other QB's.
I have serious doubts about Chad but looking at yesterdays game you can't tell me that Chicago would not have had a better shot to compete with Chad. Now I don't think he is good enough to have overcome the Colts but a few less mistakes, a better read in one or two spots, one or two plays made and that game could have been alot different.
Grossman cost the bears any real chance to compete in that game. This depite being spotted a 14-6 lead early on. Chad would have had his team in the game, but ultimately he would not have been able to keep up with Manning and the Jets would have needed some points on D or in the return game to win the game. The problem with Chad is that he just does not use enough of the field on a regular basis to pressure opposing defenses. He absolutely understands the west coast and what it's trying to do from -3 to +7 but he does not have the arm to work consistently further down the field. That makes the Jet's version of the WCO into a dink and dunk offense that has to string together 5 or 6 first downs to get into FG range. When a long play happens it's because a defender fell down or somebody else broke one with their legs and moves. Ultimately that's just too narrow a concept to beat teams like the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Bears and Eagles. The string of plays is going to break down somewhere and at the end of the game the Jet's offense has accounted for only 13-17 points which is just not good enough to beat a high caliber team.
