ur insane, as we all forget chad renegotiatged his contract to stay with this team, worked his ass off, suffered humilitation in the open position philisophy in tc, and persevered, what kind of message would mangini be sending if chad didnt start the 07 season, he worked his ass off and we wouldnt be smelling 7 wins with clemens or ramsey in there, chad is a warrior and a champion, he will take us to the super bowl, he will improve his arm strenght and he will shut up his nay sayers!!
This is exactly how you do not have an offense that progresses. How many good offenses change QB's every year. You must have consistency at the position.
You must consistently put the best players on the field. Keeping a player on the field because they know the system and played last year could mean your keeping a better player on the bench. For instance, would we have been better off 2 years ago if Rhodes and Cotchery had played more then they did? Maybe not much better 2 years ago, but I would venture a guess that they might have had even better seasons then they did if they had a little more experience under there belts.
So he should start just because he worked hard? Every player left on this team worked incredibly hard this year. The best players need to play. Judging by the amount of debate about Chad it is clear that he is not a clear cut choice for the Jets QB of the future.
I agree in part. Kellen will start if there are no other Qb's left. I saw him in camp and he wasn't so good. I think we'll draft another QB this year. I know a lot of you will get mad at this post. But I think it's the truth. Wait and see on draft day. I wouldn't be surprised if we trade him before the rest of the league finds out. Instead of others replying to this getting mad. (I HOPE I'M WRONG) It's my opinion and I'm expressing it. This was my opinion before we drafted him and he's shown me nothing to change it.
First off, I hope you don't think that by replying to your post, I'm "getting mad." Of course you're entitled to your opinion, that's what legitimate discussion boards are all about. So, try to relieve yourself of the paranoia and relax. We're only discussing Kellen Clemens here and I for one am not going to attack you for your opinions. Having said that, we must have been at different Training Camps. Clemens looked excellent to me in August. In fact, he exhibited more poise and leadership than most expected of him. But those are only the intangibles. His arm, without question, is a good one and he was pretty accurate with it on the days that I was there. And I'm apparently not the only one who thinks Clemens has potential, because Mangini himself has commented positively on his progress as well and I regard Mangini's opinion highly. I suppose anything's possible, but I don't see us taking any QB's this year. It even looks like we're going to keep Ramsey as the #3, although that bothers me some. But be that as it may, we have pressing needs other than QB at the moment.
Yes, but along with consistency you have to have production. Chad has produced in every area as the Jet's QB except for beating top tier teams. Since 2002 he has not been able to beat top tier teams consistently, and when he does come through, as against the Patriots this season, it is a notable event. For the Jets to progress to the next level they either need to improve the entire team (every area other than possibly wide receivers) or improve the QB. I know which of those two things I would try to do if I were them. And the cap ramifications of finding a top tier QB are not the same as on other teams because Chad already has a hellacious cap figure from season to season.
That's the case for anybody, though. That's why top tier teams are top tier teams. You could say the same thing about Peyton Manning until this past game, if anyone could just beat New England then New England wouldn't be a "top tier team", they would be average. If the best criticism one can level at Chad Pennington's body of work is that he hasn't done well against top tier teams in the playoffs, that's ok. Unless you're the once-a-generation QB like Brady or Montana, that's the way it's going to go. You're either going to win the Super Bowl, miss the playoffs entirely, or lose in the playoffs to a "top tier team". That doesn't mean you don't get a year or two where your team gets the breaks and you get over the hump. Everyone thought last year was the Colts' year but this year turned out to be. Everyone thought the 15-1 year was the Steelers' year, but the following year turned out to be. You just never know. So if you have a guy who you know can at least get you into the mix every year (if healthy) and give you a shot, that's what you want.
The thing is you can have a team that is good enought to make the playoffs but not good enough to go all the way. The Steeler and Colt teams had the talent to make the superbowl and win and it was only a matter of time for both. I do not have the feeling that the Jets have that kind of team. I feel that it will be a fight with the mediocre teams to get in the playoffs each year and when we get there is will be one and done. The reason I have this feeling is because I do not feel that Pennington can raise his game to the point to win a game when we need that position to step up.
My point on Chad not beating the top tier teams is that he really does not do well against them. I agree that Peyton Manning has not produced in the playoffs until this season, however he beat 2 or 3 good teams every year during the regular season and that's why Indianapolis has consistently won 12-14 games a year. Manning has not had a consistently great defense and he hasn't had a genius offensive coordinator to work with and he hasn't had a ton of talent on his team. He's consumed a silly amount of the salary cap each year, which is one of the reasons that his supporting cast has not been all that great. Still, he has managed to beat teams in the regular season that have just whupped up on the Jets even in their 10 win seasons. The Jet's defense in 2004 ranked #4 in the league to the Colts #2. The Jets had the NFL's leading rusher that year. They won 4 less games than the Colts. The position they were deficient at compared to the Colts? I know which one I think it is.
WR. Pass Catching TE. Jets play in Better Division. Oh yes, and lets not Forget OC. I like Hackett, but he's no Tom Moore. And there is no getting past the fact that Indy has taken Years, and Draft picks to Build around Manning and Moore.
The Colts are a better team and they have been, Manning is a Hall of Fame QB and Pennington is not. Even with Manning, Marvin Harrison, without the Pats in their division as Hobbes mentioned, it still took them this long. And Manning has been healthy and in the NFL two years longer than Pennington, has been a starter four years longer. The point is even with all they have it took this long. You have to get there as many times as you can get there and take as many shots as you can, the Colts and Steelers are testimony to that. If Chad can get us there, let's keep getting there and taking our shots.
I totally agree, if Chad can get us the 12 to 14 wins and we keep plugging away at that rate then that's what we should do. The Colts went from 3 wins in 1998 to 13 wins in 1999, and then lingered between 6 and 10 wins for 3 seasons before breaking the 12 win barrier (and homefield advantage in the playoffs) for good. The Jets went from 10 wins without Chad in 2001 to 9 wins in 2002 and have never broken 10 wins with him. I just don't see us ever getting to 12+ wins with him as the QB. The Colts have been a good team with good talent for quite awhile but they've never had a LOT more talent than the Jets in the process. They have had a much better QB and receivers who were better than the Jets. You can argue that the two are linked but whether Harrison is going to the HoF w/o Manning or vice-versa is not a hard question. Manning became QB and Harrison's numbers went into the stratosphere. Before that he looked like a slightly lesser version of Laveranues Coles.
Also overlooking that this was Chad's first 16-game season and it was probably the weakest Jets team he's been on. And again, having New England, Buffalo and Miami in our division as opposed to Houston, Tennessee and Jacksonville.
Let me Guess? It is the one that always kills us each year. Quarterback. Who cares about getting to the playoffs and beating the teams we need to beat. We have to beat the elite teams to win a Superbowl. You make a good point showing how good the defense was in 04. Even with Superior Talent around him chad does not have what it takes to slay the dragon.
Cothery and Coles are more than good enough to do the job with a good Qb. The TE is as well if he had somebody to get him the ball on a consistant basis! The Jets do play in a better division that is why they need a better Quarterback!
Agreed he made is sixteen games with a weak team but you must also realize this was the weakest Schedule that the Jets have had in years as well.
